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Brunei asks for "tolerance, respect and understanding...."

Discussion in 'Personal' started by MAGAorMIGA, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    ..of its laws which decree death by stoning for people convicted of gay sex, the amputation of thieves' hands and the whipping of people wearing clothes associated with the opposite sex.

    Truly we are through the looking-glass.
     
    bombaysapphire and catmother like this.
  2. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Brunei, part of the Commonwealth family that we share some many special values with.
     
  3. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    Can't we dump them?
     
    ilovesooty and FrankWolley like this.
  4. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    Well we did while its judicial system and laws were based on the British model, rather than Sharia, as they are now.
     
  5. artboyusa

    artboyusa Lead commenter

    Why not? It's their country. It's their religion. What gives us the authority to impose our values on them, Islamophobe?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  6. artboyusa

    artboyusa Lead commenter

    You're not suggesting that some countries and some social systems are better than others, are you, imperialist?
     
  7. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Weren't anti homosexual laws introduced throughout the British Empire when our legal system was imposed on colonised and occupied peoples?
     
  8. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    Yes, and we've moved on. So should they.
     
    FrankWolley likes this.
  9. xmal

    xmal Occasional commenter

    Sharia pre-dates any British occupation.
     
  10. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Star commenter

    Asking for tolerance of their intolerance seems a bit mixed up. If they think tolerance is a good thing then they need to show some.
     
  11. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Suspend them from the Commonwealth and institute economic sanctions.
     
    harsh-but-fair likes this.
  12. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    Expect those laws are pretty new in Brunei.A huge problem for people from Brunei who are known to be gay.
     
    FrankWolley likes this.
  13. fraisier

    fraisier Occasional commenter

    There is unfortunately a huge (under-addressed) problem with LGBT rights across the Muslim world, even in the more moderate and “tolerant” Muslim countries such as Tunisia or Morocco where they routinely send people to jail for being homosexual.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Tunisia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Morocco

    127 people were given prison sentences for same-sex activities in Tunisia last year, a country considered to be one of the more tolerant in the Muslim world, especially since the Arab Spring (although things are slowly worsening there after a period of hope for democracy etc., not as bad as the pre-2011 situation but not that much better).

    (Le Monde: En 2018, 127 personnes ont été condamnées à des peines de prison pour homosexualité, contre 79 en 2017 et 56 en 2016.)

    This young Tunisian man for instance has just fled Tunisia to an unspecified European country after being sentenced to prison 3 times in as many years and after being ostracised by his family.

    I know both countries well, I’ve visited them many times in the last 40 years (especially Morocco) as well as other Arab and Muslim countries (Egypt, Oman, Senegal etc.), the authorities tend to turn a blind eye to Westerners engaging in “same-sex activities” in tourist resorts (that includes kissing on the lips or holding hands but by and large they don't bother gay Westerners for that in touristic spots) but they come down very hard on locals, eg this: https://www.jeuneafrique.com/371042...lescentes-ecrouees-homosexualite-a-marrakech/

    Brunei and Saudi are obviously the more extreme examples of such discrimination but Muslim and Arab leaders across the world (including those in Europe who are, in theory, more likely to have at least partially espoused Western values and should advocate a sort of Europeanised Islam) would do well to address these horrendous attacks on basic human rights but they’re too busy running dictatorships or very autocratic regimes.

    Sadly, there is also a strong proportion of the Muslim population in Europe who agree with such outrageous repression and that in my books really puts them at odds with Western values of tolerance. I’ve visited many Muslim countries and by and large I love them, I have Arab and Muslim friends, I am left-wing, I grew up in France in very multicultural areas etc. but I find this aspect of Islam absolutely and utterly indefensible and downright vile. Events such as those unfolding in that Birmingham state primary school (a blatant manifestation of anti-Western values of tolerance, acceptance and equality by Muslim parents) and surveys or polls like this one below do worry me greatly.

    Guardian: Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, poll finds
     
  14. artboyusa

    artboyusa Lead commenter

    Has it occurred to you that maybe they've seen where we've moved on to and they've decided its not that great and they don't want to go there?
    What if not everybody in the world agrees that secular humanist values are what they want? Maybe our assorted foreign policy disasters over the past couple of decades should make us think twice before we assume that everyone wants to be like us. Or that we have some moral mission to make them so.
     
  15. artboyusa

    artboyusa Lead commenter

    Brunei is the fifth richest country in the world, Frank. The UK isn't even in the top 25. What sort of economic sanctions do you advise?
     

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