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Britain is capable of managing Brexit and calm will follow

Discussion in 'Personal' started by delmamerchant, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. delmamerchant

    delmamerchant Established commenter

    :)Just thought is was about time someone attempted to give Frank and his Brexit Bashing Business some opposition:)
    BelleDuJour likes this.
  2. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    I have already tried, too many injuns!
  3. Trendy Art

    Trendy Art Star commenter

    Unfortunately, with rhetoric such as above similar to Brexit arguments, it's hardly cogent opposition?
    dleaf12, Moony, colpee and 3 others like this.
  4. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    Unfortunately as things stand there is no evidence to back up your premise.
  5. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    I do not think anything has changed in that just as we never knew how the EU would develop if we remained, we do not know how Brexit will unfold until we leave.

    So all we are seeing now is attitudes to the event and boy, the remainers who really cannot accept the above are going into absolute overdrive in efforts to play it down, get at the British spirit and destroy the whole thing if possible.

    What worries me is it does not matter this is about Brexit, such people and their extreme (and it is extreme) negativity and intolerance when not getting their way, is an awful, awful way to be and very concerning for the direction of the country.

    It will continue to happen, whether Brexit or something else. Democracy is only tolerated if it is my vote you agree with.

    For that and that alone, Brexit MUST be delivered. This has gone beyond basic politics, it is the very core of a nation and whether it has a democratic core or is but a banana republic in disguise.
    wanet and lexus300 like this.
  6. sabrinakat

    sabrinakat Star commenter

    What worries me is not the negativity of the so-called ********* but:

    1. That this government has no policies in relation to a Brexit strategy;
    2. That there are numerous leaks, misinformation and a fundamental stupidity and arrogance on behalf of this government;
    3. The rise of xenophobic and racist behaviour as has developed post-referendum;
    4. An inability of Brexiteers to acknowledge and respect the views of those who voted remain;
    5. and that thread after thread herein seems to be proselytising the glorious new day of post-EU England which smacks of propaganda and brainwashing.

    I also find it amusing that many condemn Trump and his supporters but don't see (or want to see) the similarities between them and this.

    And Gove back in government? That alone should warn the Brexiteers!;)
    Sally006, dleaf12, phlogiston and 6 others like this.
  7. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Have you STILL not read the 12 policy statements in the government white paper on Brexit, nor all of the position papers produced by the DExEU? I have asked you this several times in the last couple of weeks and you never reply - you just continue to falsely claim that there is no policy. Why? I thought you were against spreading fake news?
    install, wanet and lexus300 like this.
  8. sabrinakat

    sabrinakat Star commenter

    Why is any disagreement considered 'fake news'? Sad. :(

    As for the 12 'policies', they sound more like a wish-list than practicable, eg. Trump wants to build that wall; May and co wish to 'protect workers' rights' - how? They want a 'smooth transition' etc. Fabulous. How will they achieve them?

    'Policies' - yes....reality - no.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  9. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    If you're retired and rich then BREXIT is an academic exercise which will will cause you little convenience.

    If you are neither of those things - have a partner who is not a British citizen and a child just starting out on a career then it's an issue.
  10. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Barnier himself said in the very first press conference after meeting with Davis that the UK would be leaving the single market and the customs union. He seems to have understood the very first time he spoke to Davis!

    Both sides could benefit from better work there, yes. Often though it can be papers taking far more from a few words said than actually was.

    Was it all fine and dandy before the referendum? Would staying in the EU change things - did it ever?

    It is not your views that are not respected, it is the action you desire - to overthrow a democratic vote. By all means argue your case but to me basic manners say we leave, we see how it is and then yes, try to get us back in. Just as it was with 45 years of so of going in.

    But to destroy an instruction to our government of the people before it is even acted out, is very scary. It is only because you agree with the case that you do not (wish to)see the dangers.

    You can only feel that way if deep down you feel Brexiters are making decent points. We are vastly outnumbered on here.
  11. sabrinakat

    sabrinakat Star commenter

    I think both sides have made good points but it can get tiresome to be told to stop 'moaning' and be more optimistic. :(
  12. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    The partners of British citizens who are non EU citizens have been grossly discriminated against for ages due to us being in the EU.

    If your partner is from the EU they get automatic entry and settlement. Costs zero pence.

    If your partner is from outside the EU it is roughly $3000 and up to 3 months before a decision can be made - and you must be outside the UK while waiting.

    So while in the EU it has been an absolute nightmare for non EU citizens wanting to join their husbands or wives in the UK.

    If leaving means everyone is treated equally then that has to be a good thing.
    cassandramark2, wanet and lexus300 like this.
  13. sabrinakat

    sabrinakat Star commenter

    Um, no - it costs £100+ to get a Residence Card as the non-EU spouse of an EU national; it can take months and is usually rejected the first time (more money for the UK government). The Home Office will do everything in its power to destroy, delay and dismiss same. EDIT: You must have lived in another EU nation legally (1+ years (websites say 3+ months, nope)) before coming to the UK.

    As the non-EU spouse of a British national, it costs £600 for the spouse visa, but it does have to be obtained outside the UK. Incidentially, there is a salary minimum, but there is a restriction for the EU national, they have to have employment as part of the above Residence Card application in the first paragraph.

    I'm all for regularising the above so that it is fair to both EU and UK nationals. And in Ireland? Free for both Irish and EU nationals.;)
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  14. Crowbob

    Crowbob Lead commenter

    Equally badly. :(
    Mangleworzle, lizziescat and dumpty like this.
  15. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Indeed - as said, EU passport holders (non UK) are favoritised and get better rights than British citizens.

    I would dearly love that to be true (600 GBP) and will certainly check costs again. I am sure I was told 1200 GBP for the visa then the need for an English course, medical (TB check), NHS contribution of 600 GBP...roughly 2200 or so when done.

    And yes, about 60, 000 GBP needed in the bank unless you have a job.

    If you have a link to the 600GBP visa please send, I will gladly be wrong on this.

    (Although still very discriminatory to non EU citizens even at your prices!)

    ** Ah hold on, just realised.....you are referring to Ireland's charges, yes? No the UK?
  16. Startedin82

    Startedin82 Established commenter

    Great post - thanks.
    sabrinakat likes this.
  17. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

  18. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Is your passport not stamped with "given leave to stay for an indefinite period"?
  19. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

  20. Startedin82

    Startedin82 Established commenter

    Here's the problem(s)

    1 The referendum was called by Cameron to try and sort out divisions within the Tory party and to fend off UKIP. There was no clamour in the country for an in/out referendum.
    2 The result was very close - 51.9% leave, 48.1% remain. The country is split down the middle.
    3 The leave vote was won on lies - money for the NHS, millions of Turks about to enter the UK etc etc (Turkey is not even in the EU).
    4 Two countries within the UK - Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to remain.
    5 Theresa May - prior to losing her authority at the 2017 GE - chose to define the vote as the hardest of hard Brexits. The trouble is what Brexit should look like was not on the ballot paper - just 'remain' or 'leave'.
    5 There really is no strategy from the Government - the cabinet is split over free movement, transition periods, the divorce bill etc.
    6 There is a vacuum at the top following the GE - the PM cannot even impose her will on the cabinet and the Tory party let alone lead the Brexit negotiations.
    7 People who have seen the Government's Brexit work from the inside know that we are staring into the abyss - David Davis's ex Chief of Staff now admits that Brexit is going to be a catastrophe.

    I could go one but I think the point is made.

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