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Bring back the Cane

Discussion in 'Behaviour' started by Mr.Chips, Dec 6, 2006.

  1. Re the PGCE and behaviour training;

    I guess it depends whether you are doing a secondary or primary PGCE. I know that Primary PGCers get SEN training but, secondary PCGErs don't get anything like the same level, if any at all. I was informed that SEN was NOT a requirement for GTC standards(secondary), well it should be.

    Behaviour management experience is very much hit and miss on a PGCE course it depends where you are placed and the training institution. Extending a PGCE would mean better behaviour management training and experience, plus i also think that many years ago the PGCE was an 18 month long course and got shortened when the bursary was introduced ( cough).

    I have a few more ideas.

    1) Ed Psychs should have to teach in a real classroom for at least 2 weeks a year. They might begin to understand the real affect of what they do.

    2) SMTs should be teaching on a regular basis too. Heard a number of SMTs on my placement say they were SMTs to get out of the classroom!! What next senior doctors who never see patients! Apparently there are SMTs out there who haven't set foot in a classroom and taught for over 5 years!!

    3) Lower the age of criminal responsibilty. Our laws are currently inadequate and do not reflect the more socially advanced and streetwise nature of most modern children, who are fully aware of the fact that most police forces will not prosecute them if they are under 16. Make them uderstand that they cannot get away with bad behaviour inside and OUTSIDE school. I mean if you can get away with stuff in the street, it is going to be 10 times easier to get away with stuff in school... that is how kids are thinking.

    4) Damage reduction; give social services more money and power. Why are you as a teacher having to deal with a a 14 year old with behavioural difficulties, whose problems stem from being bought up by junkies/alcoholics/or abusive parents? No child should spend exyended time in that sort of environment but too many do, and then it is the teachers fault if they misbehave. As a society we should be ashamed of ourselves. Social Workers with a 200 plus caseload were unheard of 20 years ago...

    5)Make detentions/non-corporal punishments a compulsory attendance issue and NOT something you can fail to do/turn up for.

    6)More imaginative community punishments/community work. Some kids behave badly because they have never been taught to emphasise with others, or consider the impact of their actions. Get them into situations where they actually get to understand other peoples experiences, whether that be helping in an old folks homes or spending a day locked in a prison. A lot of badly behaved kids often get left out of these kinds of activities and yet a lot of kids with behavioural problems are the ones that can't be told, but need to learn from experience.

    7) the UK has some of the largest primary classes in Europe. Reduce them and invest in primary education. Primary education is often ignored and underinvested in because the results of any such investment will not be seen whilst the govt is in power. Dealing and correcting bad behaviour at 5, 6, or 7 years old is far more effective and in some ways easier than dealing with bad behaviour from a 13 year old who now has certain bad behaviours 'hard-wired' see ODD....
  2. PS: We've got a mention in the TES today :)

    What did it say?
  3. ponkey: "As for usernameinuse, I wouldn't dream of giving advice to a special ed teacher working in different circumstances to a regular classroom. I am not qualified to do so nor do i spend working day with special students.
    Why cant you see that your advice to regular classroom teachers is similarly unrealistic?"

    I'm sure it does seem unrealistic. But I wouldn't be taking part in this forum if I thought it was appropriate to draw such hard and fast boundaries between what I do and what you do (and BTW I'm not a special ed teacher). The way we live our lives is far too fragmented as it is. And we're all qualified to be human.

    Underlying principles of successful creative human interpersonal interaction apply regardless of context, and regardless of whether we're trying to work with adults or children. Many of these principles are being ignored in the concept, culture and structure of our education systems and -- IMO anyway -- this is a large part of the problem. The other major part is the curriculum and the way you're required to deliver it, not to mention the size of the institutions you're delivering it in.

    The kids I work with are not really "special students" so it's not appropriate to cut them off conceptually from the kids in the classrooms. Most of them are just ordinary kids. They come from across the spectrum of social class, and more than a few left primary school with adequate reports, reasonable grades and few attitude problems. This is a rural area and local primaries are generally small and well integrated into their communiities. But within a couple of years of secondary, these kids were in deep doodoo. From going through each child's individual story, certain common factors are emerging. Most of these I've already spoken about.

    The problem is now SO big and so widespread. It's not just across this country but across most of western society. It's happening regardless of when corporal punishment in schools was withdrawn as an option. In many US states it's still permissable, but that hasn't stopped these states from experiencing the same problems as we are. In such a situation there has something far more fundamental going on to do with the *culture* of state education (which in itself is reflective of society as a whole). I've tried to draw attention to these points as well.

    About the only thing I haven't mentioned that I've come across as a significant factor is diet. Processed food with high additive content, fizzy drinks full of refined sugar and/or chemicals (the latter often being *worse* than the sugar option) don't help. Kids tend to be far less full on and hyper without them.
  4. WolfPaul: "Furthermore, although I appreciate you hold your views very dearly, usernameinuse, the reality is that your approach removes the necessity for indivuals to take responsibility for their own actions. This is IMHO is the SINGLE biggest cause of violence in our society today, not just among the young."

    I would agree, but disagree with your assessment of the approach I'm advocating. What I'm suggesting instills a deep sense of responsibility: one that's informed by morals that are taken on board as core personal internalised values, NOT a bunch of external rules that are merely adhered to to avoid getting into trouble with the "authorities".

    Our overflowing prisons, the violence in our homes, our paternalistic governments and institutions, and most of all the lack of such core values in the way most of western society goes about its daily business is clear evidence of the fact that a large part of society does not have a good sense of personal responsibility. It shows that controlling violence alone isn't sufficient, because when people without core values find themselves in a position where they feel beyond the reach of "authorities" then the gloves simply come off again. Just look at the behaviour of our multinational corporations and governments ... all of whom are run by people who were once children schooled in the old ways of controlling undesirable behaviour. What does that say about the ultimate effectiveness of those methods?

    "usernameinuse: we've tried all the variations of your "solutions" for a number of decades now. They sound very good; the problem is simply this: they don't work."

    As far as I can see, both professionally and as a parent, what has been tried so far has been done with the emphasis on method, in a prescribed formulaic way, full of "political correctness" and disingenuousness with little, if any, room for teachers to take it to heart and make it their own. So many of those applying the methods don't walk their talk. Kids see through that in an instant, and it substantially undermines the work of those who genuinely do. Kids today have had it with the "do as I say not as I do" model of adult guidance. It's not the method that matters so much. If it's not genuine, it doesn't work.
  5. I don't have time to read every post yet (tho will try to come back when I've waded through the quagmire of lesson plans I have waiting) but the topic title and some of the replies struck a chord.

    Until a few months ago i was a wishy-washy liberal. 5 months into my PGCE, I found myself writing on a lesson evaluation:

    Lined them up against the wall and shot them one by one, gleefully.

    Oh dear.
  6. I completely agree greenhappyfrog - I still feel that PGCE training brainwashes students into believing a lot of nonsense. I for one don't believe that the course churns out teachers who are well-informed about educational issues (I include myself in this even though I left PGCE a while back)- the course is just a loudspeaker for the government and is apt to change from month to month to reflect a constantly changing torrent of wishy washy policies.
  7. A lesson I had this afternoon confirmed why we need to see a return to corporal punishment. It was so horrible that I don't even want to relive it here. However, what I do know is that if we do not bring back the cane in schools, then the kind of pupils I have had to deal with today should either be school leavers at 15 or in a special school; at present they are unteachable in a classroom setting.

    I am hoping to move schools this year: it will hopefully give me some sanity back, but not for those I leave behind. Essentially, I like my classes; it's just those EIGHT lessons a week (two groups), with a room full of animals, is getting too much.
  8. It seems the real issue is that teachers are being asked to teach children that prior to inclusion, would not hae been in the classroom, but in a special school or unit.

    Teachers are not being trained to deal with these pupils, certainly not in the secondary PGCE, which is all about government policies and paperwork.

    I also feel a serious issue with inclusion is that certain schools due to catchment area and their general reputation become magnets for these sorts of pupils.
  9. Tes_Natalie

    Tes_Natalie New commenter

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