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Bring back corporal punishment campaign

Discussion in 'Behaviour' started by Captain Carwash, Mar 31, 2008.

  1. First of all, I don't see one the essentials of our job as preparing young people for employment. I believe that if we educate young people to be the best they can be, one of the incidental benefits will be that they will be prepared for employment.
    Secondly, this is a tread about corporal punishment. When are you going to discuss that?
     
  2. I forgot about this thread and back to the debate on corporal punishment. Lets be honest it will never be brought back and in current classroom climates could possibly lead to violent repercussions. So no physical chastisement of pupils is not on.
     
  3. Aldo1983

    Aldo1983 New commenter

    Not in favour of a return to corporal punishment (not because I'm a liberal <spit> - I just wouldn't heap that kind of pressure on teachers)
    No. Instead we need zero tolerance (perhaps a three strikes system?) Basically, mess us around so many times and you're out. Completely out - no home tutors, no shifting into another school. Yes, I realise we will initially end up with areas full of kids who are permanently locked out of the education system. If we have to go through a 'crunch' period like that then so be it. It will benefit our society in the long run as children and parents wake up to their responsibilities.
    While we're at it, slash the welfare state. Education is meaningless if you can easily get away with freeloading at the expense of the taxpayer.
     
  4. Ah, tens of thousands of children wandering the streets, and their parents without jobs and no way to feed them. That's bound to sort out our society, isn't it?
    I sincerely hope you're unemployed...
     
  5. Aldo1983

    Aldo1983 New commenter

    I replied to you earlier but for some reason it hasn't appeared.
    Why do you hope I am unemployed? Don't you think it is desirable for a variety of different personalities and political beliefs to be represented in teaching or do we all need to be wishy washy, toe the party line, politically correct clones?
    Incidentally I do have a teaching job which I am performing in very well (I'll think of you when my next pay slip comes through :eek:)
    As for what I said, I stand by it. People are primarily motivated by fear. Children used to fear their teachers and parents. Adults used to fear unemployment and loss of respect from others in their community. All that has gone and, quite frankly, we need to get back to it - and if we need to be a bit brutal in the process then the quicker it gets done the better.
     
  6. I sincerely hope you're unemployed...
    ==============
    Ray by your own philosophy then should you not be doing your utmost best to be getting Aldo back to work, afterall you would not want him to become socially redundant like some ex-pupils whose attitude at school prevented them from ever making much of a positive contribution to society.I think that badly beahved pupils should be removed as the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one, these kids can be educated by retired armed forces officers. ;-D
     
  7. Aldo1983

    Aldo1983 New commenter

     
  8. Aldo1983

    Aldo1983 New commenter

    LOL - you've just reminded me of a guy we had in our school last year. He was a teacher in the late 1970s and had left to work in the army. Last year he retired from the army and thought he could supplement his income by doing some supply work in schools. However, because he was out of schoolteaching for so long the local council sent him on a visit to our school to see if it's what he wanted to do for sure. After introducing himself as "squadron leader", he sat ashen-faced at the antics of the pupils before asking "shouldn't these children be in the remedial class?" Later on he told me that he wanted to "nail the little b******s to the floor".
    I never saw him after that but I assume he decided to give it a miss. Walking out of a school in 1980 and walking back in in 2008 must be like entering a different universe. Okay, he was a bit of an old buffoon but, yes - they should be in a remedial class and, yes - they should be nailed to the floor >:eek:)
     
  9. Aldo1983

    Aldo1983 New commenter

     
  10. I sincerely hope you're unemployed, aldo, because then you might develop some empathy for the horrors of the "sink or swim" approach to unemployement you propse.

    As for the restof your ramblings, I don't have a spare three months to show you where you are so very, very wrong. However, let's take one:
    Do you understand the difference between "incidental" and "essential"? The job of education is to maximise young people's potential. If their potential is maximised, they will become, among others things, good citizens who contribute economically through employment. But that is not a reason to educate them, it is a product of their education.

     
  11. Aldo1983

    Aldo1983 New commenter

    Playing with words.
    Of course preparing young people for employment is a reason to educate them. You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think otherwise! Why do you think employers are consulted on what goes into the courses we teach? I'm willing to bet universal education only came about because some Victorian captains of industry whinged that they couldn't get enough people who could read, write and count to be able to fuel the expansion of the industrial revolution at the rate they desired.
    Everything comes down to money Ray - everything. Your job, my job, the whole of the public sector wouldn't exist if it weren't for people leaving school, engaging in productive employment, and paying their taxes. So we'd damn well better make sure we prepare them for employment - otherwise our own source of cash will eventually dry up!
     
  12. Oh well, if you say "of course", then that's the argument won, isn't it? Tube.
    Actually, universal education is the porduce of Church influence, and nothing to do with "Victorian captains of industry". How you hide your monumental ignorance with bluster...
     
  13. I sincerely hope you're unemployed, aldo, because then you might
    develop some empathy for the horrors of the "sink or swim" approach to
    unemployement you propse.
    ==============================================

    Ray lets say that there is an unruley pupil whose behaviour is disgusting across the whole school, this pupil is disruptive, abusive and makes physical attacks both on fellow pupils and staff. Much class time is spent on this one pupil who has made it clear that he hates school. Now common sense would dictate that this pupil should be excluded in the interest of the other pupils who are wanting to learn. On the other hand people like Ray would want this pupil kept in at any cost, afterall what would happen to the poor darling otherwise? The said pupil should be 'educated' into behaving, we should all 'empathise' with the poor darling and rationalise every wrong doing he commits. Real life is sink or swim.
     
  14. Aldo1983

    Aldo1983 New commenter

     
  15. Aldo1983

    Aldo1983 New commenter

    Ray, you claim to have realistic views regarding how unruly children should be managed. Yet when anyone suggests anything that even vaguely sounds like 'taking the gloves off' you recoil in horror. Someone suggests a return to corporal punishment - you react with disgust. I suggest zero tolerance - you react with disgust. So if we're not going to whip the kids into submission or throw them out completely for recurrent misbehaviour, we have to keep them in. Oh, you can shuffle them around different schools in the local authority but they will cause the same problems everywhere. You can pay to educate them at home but that would be totally unjust - a well behaved pupil gets a pupil/teacher ratio of 25 to 1 but some little monster gets 1 to 1? You can open schools purely for the worst elements but they will be more like prisons than schools, no one will want to work in them, and even if you do succeed in educating a few all you will be doing is helping to make the gangsters and murderers of tomorrow more articulate and convincing.
    The only solution is to wash our hands of the more delinquent element. They have the right of a free at the point of use, state administered education IF and ONLY if they choose to respect it and not ruin it for anyone else. If they don't make the sensible choice then at least we tried.

     
  16. [​IMG] I'd say that everyone who counts - ie those at the coalface - would concur with that. The real problem is that those who make the decisions aren't at the coalface, and only listen to other tw*ts who are not there either.
     
  17. Isn't it fortunate that other public servants "at the coal face" don't have such selfish ideas?
    Where would be be if the police "washed their hands" of habitual criminals?
    Where would be be if nurses "washed their hands" of people who turned up regularly at Accident and Emergency, for whatever reason?
    Where would be be if public health inspectors "washed their hands" of establishments that habitually broke Health and Safety regulations?
    I wonder if we'd accuse them of being lazy, and of wanting an easy life?
     
  18. Aldo1983

    Aldo1983 New commenter

     
  19. "The job of teachers is to educate children - not crowd control or babysitting."
    Yes - you just want to pick and choose which children you teach. And to compare children to violent, drunken yobs in A&E is to diminish the bravery and professionalism of nurses and police, and to show up just how out of touch YOU are with reality by having the temerity to compare the danger willingly place themselves in with your relatively cossetted position.
    As for your personal attacks on my right to have a say from my "ivory tower" (what a tired cliche) on this issue - I am every bit as "brave" as you: it's simply that, instead of coming on internet noticeboards to whine incessantly about teachers are unable to cope, I have chosen the path of helping thousands of new teachers over the years find practical solutions to do just that.
     
  20. Aldo1983

    Aldo1983 New commenter

     

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