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Brexit starts

Discussion in 'Personal' started by nomad, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    It was a shame that Andrew Marr didn't push her harder:

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjqyaK_6LHXAhWLDRoKHTneDcoQhlQIOTAF&url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36352676/penny-mordaunt-the-uk-can-t-veto-turkey-joining-eu&usg=AOvVaw1EMwVXI4UBKqBiJq0n1b-f

    At least David Cameron popped up on Peston to denounce her “very misleading claim. ... “She is absolutely wrong. Let me be clear, Britain and every other country in the EU has a veto on another country joining. That is a fact,” said Cameron, in an interview on ITV’s Peston on Sunday.
     
  2. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    And who voted Leave...... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    If you bothered to look past your blinkers you'd have noticed that I have a go at the idiocy coming from both sides
     
    mathsmutt likes this.
  3. woollani

    woollani New commenter

    Oh I know you do - when it suits you that is. In this instance you have made a claim that you are either unwilling or unable to substantiate. Naturally people will form their own view as to which it is.
     
    lexus300 likes this.
  4. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    I gave my reasons. It is obvious which way you'll take
    We've been through all this before (many times) and there are still those who deny anything that may cast a doubt on the "validity" of the arguments used by both sides during the campaigning.
    Why I have no idea as it is all out there either in printed form, in pictures or on video.
    It's not like the old days where the embarrassing stuff could be buried quietly where no-one can find it :rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  5. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    You said that you "can't be ars.... :oops: bothered to repeat arguments made many many times since the bus first appeared".

    That attempt at diversion fooled nobody, because you weren't asked for arguments, repeated or not. You were asked for a link to support your claim.

    Despite your claim that "many made speeches promising the money" you have failed to find one single piece of evidence to that effect and so people are bound to think that you just made up the claim. "Fake news" as a certain American president loves to say. You simply made a statement that was groundless, and now you won't admit it.

    Don't worry, I'm sure we will remind you at frequent intervals of your failure to support your claim.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  6. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    That's what they count on.
    Another meaningless promise - since about 1931 from memory?
     
  7. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Not entirely. As the Bank of England's own FAQ explains, it today means that the Bank will exchange the note for other cash to the same face value.
     
  8. burajda

    burajda Lead commenter

    But supported by hardly anyone else. Turkish membership would probably have been vetoed by many members states. Can't see the move being very popular in Hungary, Poland, or even France Then there's just a bit of persuasion needed to convince Greece and Cyprus.
     
  9. burajda

    burajda Lead commenter

    Just Project Fear then.
     
  10. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    If I want change, I can nip to my local corner shop.

    It's fairly well acknowledged that the promise written on UK bank notes is more decoration / tradition than anything else.
     
  11. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    Which would of course lead to other pedantic arguments/nonsense and the wheel would turn back to the beginning.
    For instance was the word promise used specifically as a binding commitment...
    We've already seen your counter-argument
    Whether you or I didn't fall for the words on the bus or in the speeches, it is clear that many did.
    Both campaigns were a perfect examples of how such things should not be argued and I fail to see that the present arguments are any better.

    I'm sure you will.
    That is about the level of argument I now expect
     
    sabrinakat and Nanook_rubs_it like this.
  12. irs1054

    irs1054 Lead commenter

    Still claiming that the only way to make a promise is to say "promise".
    Still totally missing the point.

    So what? Totally irrelevant.

    And you still haven't managed to show that using "let's" precludes making a promise. In any case at least two other poster have shown a definition, so I didn't feel it worth bothering about.

    In any event, I have supported my case but you have done your usual dishonest act by ignoring it.

    And you are still missing the point.
     
  13. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Not only have I never done so, I have only just pointed out to you that a promise can be made by saying or writing "I pledge ...".

    There are many other synonyms ("I vow", "I commit" etc.). One thing is common to them all - they weren't used on the bus because the leave team knew that they were not in a position to promise anything. All they could do was suggest.

    If they wanted to make a promise, they would have said "We promise". Simples. This is kindergarten stuff.

    There has never been any point to your argument. You are trying to argue that words mean what you want them to mean, just like Humpty Dumpty. It's a futile point. Even if you could twist the English language to change a suggestion into a promise, what do you imagine you would achieve?
     
  14. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    How could it? Either the word "promise" was used, as you claim, or it was not.

    Quite why you don't just say "I thought I heard many people say in front of that bus that they promise to spend the money on the NHS, but now I have checked I see I am mistaken".

    (I'm sure you don't need it pointing out again that words such as "promise", "pledge", "vow" or "commit" were not used because they knew they would be ridiculed for promising something they couldn't deliver).

    It is the inevitable consequence of publishing claims that turn out to be untrue.
     
  15. irs1054

    irs1054 Lead commenter

    And again the dishonesty. You deny you made a claim and proceed to make it again.

    Irrelevant, the point is that the words they did use was seen by many as a political promise that if Brexit occurred there would be this extra money for the NHS. This was intended to be understood as a promise for the purposes of campaigning but was always known by those that said it to be a lie. Why are you defending them?

    You are the one who is trying to twist the English language by using selective definitions whilst ignoring other ones which are inconvenient to you.
    Language does not exist simply as definitions, there is also common usage which you seem determined to ignore.

    And the main point, since you seem to be determined to be deliberately obtuse about it, is to expose your dishonesty. I'm afraid I can only tolerate a certain amount before I feel compelled to do something about it.
     
  16. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    Allow me to correct that for you
    "That is the consequence of people presuming that the claims are untrue".

    However feel free to move on and continue your singularly spirited and continuous defence of the govts handling of the negotiations.
    Few others will so you really should concentrate your preference for sophistry on a single target
     
  17. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    That's right, I didn't. It was YOU who wrongly claimed that I said only the verb promise can be used to make a promise. That is as idiotic as your claim that Vote Leave was a political party. You just make things up and then waste everyone's time arguing the toss and calling others dishonest when the dishonesty is entirely of our own making.

    It's not my fault if you do not understand the English language.

    Please supply an entry from a recognised English dictionary that defines "Let's" to mean "We promise".
     
  18. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Like you (no doubt) I have checked and can find nobody using the word promise (or similar) in front of that bus.
     
  19. elledriver

    elledriver Lead commenter

    Seems like there is one hour less in the EU that we thought.
    Exit is at 23:00 GMT, 29/03/19=00:00 CET.
     
  20. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    I have significant doubts, given past postings by both of us, that you and I could agree on a definition of "similar"

    "Having a resemblance in appearance, character, or quantity, without being identical."
    Or many of the terms above for that matter
    :cool:
     

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