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Brexit starts

Discussion in 'Personal' started by nomad, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. burajda

    burajda Lead commenter

    Yes because Leave ran a campaign stating that Turkey IS joining the EU, not that it could or might be joining the EU. In the past the UK government had suggested something like 'Lets make Turkey an EU member' but that was obviously not a promise. It's even less likely to happen now that the only EU member state that really advocated for Turkey's membership is now leaving the EU.
  2. burajda

    burajda Lead commenter

    I always wonder why someone who voted Remain is so passionately defensive of the Leave campaign and so critical of the EU and the campaign run by the Remain campaign.
    mathsmutt and irs1054 like this.
  3. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Ah, just like irs1054 you are making things up and, when challenged, you fail to support your claims.

    I thought you were better than that,
    mathsmutt likes this.
  4. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Because I despise fraudsters who make up false claims that they cannot justify when challenged. I don't know why they bother because trying to discredit leave voters is not going to make the slightest difference to the outcome of the referendum.

    I felt totally let down by the remain campaign. Didn't you?
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  5. CraigCarterSmith

    CraigCarterSmith Established commenter

    good lord it must be exhausting, trapped in the everlasting quest to find a deeper existential meaning to just being selfish, you are happy your side won and you don't care how you got there, that's fine, honestly, loads of people feel that way, some of us admit it :rolleyes::D
    Burndenpark likes this.
  6. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Jeez! How many errors can you make in 24 hours?

    I make no such claim.

    A promise can be made by saying "I pledge to give the NHS £350 million a week".

    Was that written on the bus? No, of course it wasn't.

    Have you yet managed to work out why the words promise and pledge were NOT used? It's taking you an awfully long time, so I'll tell you - the six people concerned (two labour, two tory and two not even MPs) were not in a position to promise anything about the budget of a future government. Could you really not work that out for yourself?
  7. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Eh? I voted remain - my side lost.

    Welcome to the ever-growing list of error-ridden posts on Brexit.

    I care greatly that those fools Cameron and Osborne totally screwed up the remain campaign and failed to convince the majority that it was worth the UK staying in the EU (although I would be the first to say that the EU needs enormous reform, to which is is systemically resistant). I shoul;d add that while I would have preferred to stay in the EU, I don't share the hysterics of those who think that leaving will be some kind of disaster. If well handled, there will be opportunities which - as always - some people will grasp whuile the boring ones sit around wringing their hands and just moaning.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
    wanet likes this.
  8. Burndenpark

    Burndenpark Lead commenter

    Interestingly- you didn't include a link- I wonder why not?

    2.2let me" or "let us Used to make an offer of help.

    Hmmm make an offer? I wonder who has suggested that interpretation?

    2.3 Used to express one's strong desire for something to happen or be the case.
    Hmmmmm again.

    2.5 Used to express an assumption upon which a theory or calculation is to be based.
    Mmmmmmmmmmm again

    I do find it quite surprising that you gave such a partisan selection of the options and ignored so many others....

    No on second thoughts it's really par for the course with you.
  9. woollani

    woollani Established commenter

    So you confirm that Florian is correct. None of the above agrees that 'Let's' is equivalent to a promise.
  10. woollani

    woollani Established commenter

    How disappointing. I thought you might at least elucidate and not rely on bluster.
  11. irs1054

    irs1054 Lead commenter

    And here we are with the dishonesty again. Deny that you have made the claim and then, in effect, repeat it.

    Someone can make a promise even though they are in no position to keep it (or indeed no intention), it happens all the time in politics, it's called lying.

    And why do you insist on listing the people involved? Completely irrelevant.

    You have made a ridiculous claim and you can't admit it.
    Burndenpark and Nanook_rubs_it like this.
  12. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    I am
    I just can't be ars.... :oops: bothered to repeat arguments made many many times since the bus first appeared
  13. woollani

    woollani Established commenter

    And you most probably can't support your claim that promises were made in front of the bus with evidence, which is a bit limp from one who bigs up on this thread from time to time in support of Remain.
  14. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    But they didn't make a promise, did they? Have worked out why the words on the bus didn't start with "We promise"? Because everyone knew that they couldn't promise the direction of a future government's expenditure anymore than you or I could.

    Because you came out with the demented idea that two Labour MPs, two Tory MPs and two guys who were not even MPs, constituted a political party". Did you not notice that they didn't appear on the ballot paper in this year's general election? :D:D:D:D:D:D

    Just to remind you, I've pointed to the dictionary definition of "Let's" and asked you to provide a definition that defined "Let's" as a promise. You couldn't.

    I asked how two Labour MPs, two Tory MPs and two guys who were not even MPs could promise how a future government would spend it's money. You have not been able to tell me.

    I'm afraid that your inability to support the case you tried to make is the only thing that is ridiculous.

    In any case, what is the point of your argument? Do you think that if it turns out that some future government decides not to spend the suggested amounts on the NHS, this will somehow reverse the decision to leave the EU?
    woollani likes this.
  15. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    But you have not been asked to do so. You have been asked to substantiate your claim that "Many made speeches promising the money in front of the bus". If there were many, you wouldn't have found it hard to point to a video or report of them using the word "promise".

    You have failed to do so, and thus undermined your own point -- it is becoming obvious that you must have just invented the claim unless of course you can disprove that suspicion by substantiating your claim.
    woollani likes this.
  16. burajda

    burajda Lead commenter

    Yes. It was feeble and often dishonest and they seemed constrained when they should have gone full on when Leave were clearly also being dishonest - such as the Bus and Turkey. It seemed they never took the gloves off to assault fellow Conservatives like Patel, Johnson and Gove. I felt totally let down by Cameron and his government putting party before country.
    florian gassmann and FrankWolley like this.
  17. burajda

    burajda Lead commenter

    Yet can't bring yourself to actually state that 'Turkey IS joining the EU' was a clear example of a lie made up by the Leave campaign.
    Nanook_rubs_it likes this.
  18. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    No, I am happy to address the point, but it is not a simple yes/no matter. It was not a lie, because at the time Turkey was a candidate for EU membership - something supported by the UK as David Cameron memorably confirmed when he said he wanted to ‘pave the road from Ankara to Brussels’. Negotiations had opened in 2005. However, when Cameron realised the strength of feeling against Turkish membership his paving of the way suddenly became an announcement that Turnkey might not be able to join until the year 3000.

    I think the latest from President Erdogan a few weeks ago is that
    Turkey no longer needs EU membership but will not abandon talks

    So I think the claim was not a lie, but it was wildly premature and unnecessarily alarmist.
    burajda likes this.
  19. vinnie24

    vinnie24 Lead commenter

    As a brexiteer I find this a good thing.
    wanet likes this.
  20. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    The liar behind this lie has just been promoted to the Cabinet by that good Christian, TM.

    Kevin Schofield‏Verified account@PolhomeEditor
    What a time to be alive, when someone who wrongly claimed that Britain could do nothing to stop Turkey joining the EU can go on to join the Cabinet.

    2:14 PM - 9 Nov 2017
    burajda likes this.

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