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Being positive

Discussion in 'Primary' started by lillipad, May 19, 2011.

  1. lillipad

    lillipad New commenter

    Hi guys,

    Am just after a bit of advice, have a pupil in my class who struggles to focus and consequently is quite disruptive and can be quite vindictive to other children. I feel I have tried to be very fair, giving him warnings, choices and eventually sending him out. However, he comes back and disrupts again straight away. Also when he does make the right choice, it lasts for about 5 minutes!

    I have tried praising him up for even the smallest thing he does right, but he really can't maintain it! I'm on my own with the class most of the time so his disruption is quite unmanageable. However I feel i'm being negative with him, in sending him out and wondering if anyone could suggest a more positive approach.

    He doesn't respond to things like earning ticks for free time as he starts to see it as his given right to have that and assumes he can take that time at his own choosing and for how long. So am not sure a reward system completed by monitoring behaviour will be effective.

    Please help, i'm getting home very tired and worn out from this now!!
  2. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    Just keep sending him out. If he doesn't respond and still hasn't responded in his 6 years or so at school, then you ain't going to change him around now.

    You don't need to be negative, just clear and consistent. Be clear about the rules and consistent about the sanctions. At least if he is elsewhere they rest can get on without being disturbed. Sometimes the needs of the 29 have to outweigh the needs of the 1.
  3. lillipad

    lillipad New commenter

    Minnie- this is what i've tried to do! I've always given him a number of strikes (Usually 3) and then out. And prior to that i've given him choices but he often has some 'excuse' for why he can't do it (Even though his attitude is normally the actual reason)

    The trouble is, it's a challenging school so I struggle with sending him somewhere, there's only really one teacher who could have an effect and I feel bad when he turns up at her door twice a day! Other classes either have teachers who are very soft, or even more challenging classes so I find it quite difficult to justify sending him out all the time and that's why i'd like to try something else which involves trying to stop the behaviours before they start, and therefore keep him in class!!
  4. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    Which is very good of you. But to be honest by this stage of year 6 you have to be realistic. You cannot plan and teach your lessons around his wants and needs. Three chances and you go, is just fine. By the time he goes he has disrupted your lesson 4 times, this is not ok for any reason at all.

    Don't feel bad about sending him to the same person each and every time. I have three boys, all from the same class, who turn up at my door at least once a day, often 2-3 times each. I'd rather they sat in the corner of my class facing the wall bored brainless then know they were causing merry hell in their own class.
  5. Apologies if this sounds a bit obvious and/or daft but have you tried talking to him about it. He can't be happy with the way things are at the moment. Put this to him, and say 'clearly what we're doing at the moment isn't working for you, what could we do to help you fit in better.' (I'm purposefully not saying 'what could we do to make you happy at school' as I can imagine the response!) I understand that it's not that long til the end of the year but I also know it's kids like this that tend to stick in your head and make you feel ****. Don't write him off yet!
  6. Andrew Jeffrey

    Andrew Jeffrey New commenter

    Agreed - bear in mind that children (and adults) always behave in a way that seems the most sensible to themselves, even if not to others, so getting his perspective may help significantly.
  7. clear_air

    clear_air New commenter

    How old is this little boy? Have you been teaching him all year? Positive is always better than negative, I reckon, so keep on bigging up the good things, and try to minimise your reaction to the bad (if you can). Capitalise on everything he does well, send to the head fro praise, etc. Show him that you care - pretend you like him, anything to get him to see that you are ON his side. It IS hard - I do feel for you, especially if this has been going on all year.
    A quiet chat along the lines of 'do it my way and you will have a good time, don't, and you will have a very bad and boring time' might help?
    Behaviour chart?
    Remember the tale of the sun and the wind, who each wanted to make a man take off his coat?
    However, it IS late in the year...pick the brains of your colleagues. What have they done that worked?
  8. Have you involved his parents? Got them on side? Parent & school behaviour system? In one class, I had a very disruptive Y2 child. We formed a behaviour book/chart which had support from his parents and a certain amount of "strikes" (unha[[y faces) etc then sanctions happened at home - (rewards in school = computer time with a "friend" at play time on a Friday etc) he didn't go to his friends house/wasn't allowed T.V time for 30 minutes etc. Worked well. Lots of talking/discussion with the child and parents both seperately and together should help.

  9. lillipad

    lillipad New commenter

    Hi guys, I am new to the class, a lot of your suggestions have been tried already.

    I've tried talking to him and listening and changing things to help him fit in, but he literally throws it back at you. Plus, mum is totally unsympathetic towards managing him, she is always working, never bothers with parents eve and has no control over him at home (so his behaviour isn't really surprising)

    Rewards don't really work. I've experienced myself that literally, you praise him up and reward him and 10 seconds later he's off again. Plus he is desperate to get everyone else into trouble, and will shout at me until I acknowledge it... Even though we have talked about when he should be worried by what other people are doing....

    Sending him out gives respite, but he struts back in,doesn't apologise, and for example today, he came back and within seconds shouted 'Miss... So and so is waving a pencil around' - there's no remorse, even though I usually take the time to get him to tell me why he was sent out and point out every warning he's had and the reason for the warning.... And even though he acknowledges his behaviour isn't acceptable... He just seems stuck in a loop and can't change it...

    I'm not looking to move mountains... But I just want it to be manageable for my own sanity and the rest of the classes!! Specially as its their last few months of primary school!! I want them to remember it as a positive time!
  10. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    Can you do the 'three strikes and you're out' idea, but just write them clearly on the board. Don't look at home or give him any attention at all for the bad behaviour. Next time you send him out, get the class on side by saying we are all going to totally ignore 'Jonny' when he shouts out, misbehaves, etc. We are not even going to look at him let alone allow him to disrupt the lesson. Make it clear that anyone who turns to look or laughs or joins in is just as guilty and so will also be punished. (You might feel a little bit guilty at first, but they get the idea really fast, so don't worry.) Just give him nothing at all, don't even look. If it is serious, write up a 'strike' on the board.

    However when he is doing the right thing go totally over the top with praise. It might not be welcome, but the attention will be.
  11. lillipad

    lillipad New commenter

    Well I consistently did that today and warned him each time.... The kids do try to ignore him (They're fed up with it too!) but sometimes that's hard as he does't talk- he shouts and will do anything to disrupt, including poking and prodding and generally making it uncomfortable with the other kids.

    Honestly I feel shattered tonight from it.
  12. clear_air

    clear_air New commenter

    I think That's really wis advice minnie.
    I was also wondering whether some sort of circle timey thing on how a class can help each other might benefit the whole class as well as your troubled little boy.
    Keep us posted - I'm always looking for the things that work[​IMG]
  13. clear_air

    clear_air New commenter

    Ah, Lillipad, it IS tiring - especially at this time of the year. Big hugs! And keep at it - sounds like you're doing the right things - it just takes a while for little 'uns to learn you mean business. And it takes kids with probs linger to unlearn all the unhelpful things too.
  14. lillipad

    lillipad New commenter

    The trouble is... he's not little! He's a very large year 6 with the attitude of a 15 year old!! :( I think he's almost as tall as me haha
  15. clear_air

    clear_air New commenter

    Ach, he's still little in the grand scheme of things. his body may be big, but his brain certainly ain't!!
    I have found the birth and bringin' up of me own sprogs enormously helpful in understanding their behaviour - any attention is good for them - they REALLY don't care! (!) He's learned this way of behaving because he feel sit is the way he gets what he wants (whatever that is). Your task is to change his mind over getting what he wants. It's difficult to change ingrained behaviour patterns, but not impossible....
    Have a glass of wine and don't worry about it for the weekend. Sounds like you need a break. xx
  16. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    First shout = first strike. Second ***= second strike. Third poke= third strike and he is out for the rest of the session. He only gets three chances and goes. Be utterly ruthless, no 'chances'. (To be honest if he touched the other children, poking and prodding, in my class he would be out immediately. No strikes for that sort of thing. Any assault means straight out.)

    Talk to the person you send him to and ask her to keep him for the rest of the session. So if sent out before break she keeps him until break. And so on. Then he only gets to disrupt the class 3 times at most and is gone for the rest of the session allowing you to teach and the others to learn.

    Yeps huggs from me as well...and hey be glad you haven't had to do this every day all year! Relax this evening and don't think about it.
  17. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    Ho on earth is 'pr od' a problem word? How? Especially as I can have prodding?!
  18. lillipad

    lillipad New commenter

    Thanks guys, I feel a bit better having just had a big cry down the phone to my boyfriend! Doesn't help that I have a stinking cold and barely any voice at the moment so it's all heaped on top of me. I'm going to try and be consistent with my 3 strikes and keep chucking him out and hope it pays off... otherwise he's going to spend more time in the corridor / other classes than with us... lol :(
  19. Ladykaza

    Ladykaza Senior commenter

    It sounds to me like you're doing everything you can to manage this behaviour but you cannot do this alone, it's too persistent. WhAt structures are in place to support you? What are the SLT doing to help you? I had a class like this in my NQT year. I was lucky to have a very clear whole school behaviour management system with the full support of the SLT. I once called for the cavalry and both head and deputy arrived to remove a violent child from the classroom. They then supervised him for the rest of the day away from the class...... They only had to do this once. It's time to ask for help. Do not see this as any reflection on your skills, you are doing what you need to do for the sake of your class.
  20. Hi lilipad.
    Having struggled with behaviour management personally in the past, and still feeling as if it is a personal area in which I need to further develop, I'm not going to pretend that I'm an expert in this area. I'd just like to offer my opinion and hope that you may find it useful hearing my point of view. I have used the following strategy to manage the behaviour of some challenging students and I really witnessed a totally different side to their personalities..
    In addition to the, often necessary, use of sanctions and rewards I would try to give the child as much personal attention during the lesson as possible. I would preferably do this early on and try to support them as much as practicable. Encourage the child with the task they're undertaking and try to make them feel safe and wanted; genuinely try to show your interest in them. I would probably try to sit as close to them as possible and try to maintain a metaphorical 'bubble' around the two of you in which they feel a little special, let them know you're looking after them.
    I'm happy to talk more about my reasons for suggesting such an approach. I genuinely hope someone finds something of value in what I've had to say.
    Best of luck Lilipad, I know how tough it can be! :D

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