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behaviour - any tips?

Discussion in 'Primary' started by perky_panda, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. Hi, I have about 5 boys in particular who call out, rock on chairs, are very lazy, refuse to do things etc. The problem I have is they just answer back or say no. This is leading to others copying as they see that the others are 'getting away with it'. I am at my wits end with these few ruining the lessons for the others and spend more time talking to them (negatively and praising when they get it right) that I don't get to talk/work with others without constant interruption. My TA isn't very useful when it comes to behaviour management - they just completely ignore her or answer back. They respond to me but as soon as I have one doing the right thing another one is off task. Doesn't help that some are so lazy they virtually lay across the table and just glare at you if you comment/encourage them to join in. They are year 4/5. Any tips?
  2. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    What sanctions are available to you? Generally children behave this way because they can.

    Why are they getting away with it?
  3. They lose golden time as a running weekly thing (have to earn a tick each day). warning - name on board, tick = 5 mins off break/lunch. When they get 3 ticks they are removed to another classroom. Parents are told etc. Problem is when they just refuse - how can you exit a child or keep them in if they just refuse. If I keep repeating the command/instruction and they just answer back/ ignore/ say no I am losing face with the others hence why some of the others are beginning to join in. I have got a really tricky class this year, maybe it is just this week but they do seem to be getting worse not better
  4. jwraft

    jwraft New commenter

    Your head or someone from the SLT needs to support you to help follow the sanction through.

    Be stern and separate them from the herd when you're having a word with them, they'll respond better without an audience. Try to get parents onside also. Be consistent with your behaviour policy and reward those who behave well, excessively until the others get the point!
  5. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    Totally agree. If they refuse to go to the other class, send a well behaved child to fetch the HT or DH to come and remove said child. Do this every single time.

    One offence, tick on board as a warning. Second offence tick on board and 5 mins off play. Third offence sent to another class. If they don't go, they are reminded that they have to and if they still don't then someone comes to get them.

    If you allow them to refuse then you are making a rod for your own back. Bet you anything you like, once they stop getting away with saying no, the entire class will get into line.
  6. I had a tricky Y5 class on TP (loved the little ***, though!) and they gave me exactly this kind of behaviour problem. It came to a head like it sounds like it has for you. I got the DH (also my mentor) involved and he sat in while I gave them The Speech to underline that he supported me. I sat the whole class down and was very, very grave and went:
    "Refusing to work: not acceptable. Bad language: not acceptable. Answering adults back: not acceptable. Throwing things: not acceptable. Blah blah: not acceptable. Blah blah: not acceptable." - seriously, I had a list of about 10 things that were NOT ACCEPTABLE.
    I then walked them very slowly and seriously through the sanction steps and asked if everybody understood. I've never been so serious in my whole life! If they lost more playtime than there was playtime, it rolled into lunchtime. If it had to, it rolled into the next day (not ideal but I wouldn't let anything go). Then I was an absolute DEMON for following it through. For weeks, some kids had almost no playtime whatsoever! But eventually - EVENTUALLY - I really had control (and so could let go and do fun things I wouldn't have been able to trust them with previously), and EVEN ended up able to spend playtimes in my rightful place: in the staffroom with grown-ups.
  7. Thanks, my main annoying one if you praise him eg you are sitting well he says no I am not. If you praise those around him he says I'm not sitting well am I, even if he really is! I know it is for attention but it so annoying! Need to be more consistent with losing break etc but by the end of the lesson/morning I just want a break so I have to admit sometimes they have earnt back their minutes back when maybe they shouldn't have. Just need to be firm and keep with it I guess. Argh!
  8. To the poster who said about getting the HT or DH in - we don't have a DH and most of the time the HT isn't there (on courses/meetings/conferences etc) and doesn't want to be called unless absolutely necessary. Even sending the child home on a half day exclusion (I did on monday with HT consent) didn't do anything, thought it might set an example to the others at least but no
  9. I never, ever let mine earn it back. Even if I'd like to, or if parents ask if they can, or I think I was probably too harsh to dish out the sanction in the first place, even if they cry. I know that sounds hard! If you do what I did (it really, really worked for me), you're drawing a line in the sand so what's gone before (and what you have allowed them to get away with) is in the past and it's like starting again.
    Instead of involving SMT as suggested, maybe just let everyone in school know what you're doing so everyone is singing off that hymnsheet. Mention it in staff briefing/write it on staffroom whiteboard, etc. So whoever takes them for PPA, other teachers for when it's their break/lunch duty, playground staff, everybody is working together.
    And if they're being ***** about accepting paise, don't give them it! I know you always want to be positive but if there's nothing to be positive about, you can't invent it and they know when you do! Good luck x100 xx
  10. jwraft

    jwraft New commenter

    Another member of staff then if your head isn't there. Your HT has a duty to support you in these circumstances - it's in their best interest. If ofsted were to visit and see this the school wouldn't do well for behaviour! In terms of the attention seeking one, don't give him it.

    You mentioned about letting them have minutes back because you want your break, and you're entitled to your break and it sounds like you need it, but these children are wise enough to know you've given them it back without them actually earning it. I truly believe behaviour management is consistency, what's good for one is good for the rest. Make your expectations really clear and keep them high by following through on sanctions. They might hate you initially for it initially but in a month's time they'll respect you.

    Good Luck!
  11. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    I never ever let children earn back break either. They've been naughty they accept the consequence. Otherwise they simply learn they have to be good for 5 mins at the end of the lesson and then get away with being a total sod for the other 55 mins. However much they beg I simply point out that all they can do now is stop it getting worse and sulking won't help. Then I ignore all pleas.

    Praise them for something they are genuinely doing. If they say no I'm not then ignore it. If they tell you they aren't being good when you praise another child, say something like "Are you not? well I might need to put a tick on the board next to your name then" and pick up a pen. Once ticks by their name start to mean something, they'll soon stop.

    If the Ht isn't there then send a child to some other teacher to ask for help. Get all other staff on your side and have people who are willing to come and collect the little ********. Unless behaviour across the school is a nightmare, most teachers can leave their class for a few moments to come and collect a child from a colleague.
  12. If they won't go outside, take the rest of the class out so that they don't have an audience. If you have a willing colleague, take the rest of the class in to their classroom while you sort a child out. Do the unexpected. Don't ever lose your temper. If you praise them and they refuse to take praise, say, "I think that you are sitting well/working hard.". They can't argue with your opinion, and if they do, accept it. Say something like, well we'll have to agree to differ. Don't let them see that you are bothered by it. When you feel that you're making headway, give them a bit of responsibility, so that they are getting attention of a positive kind.
  13. Thanks for the advice. I did stick to the keeping them in thing today - had about 8 at lunch though! They didn't enjoy it and apparently behaviour this pm (my ppa) was awful but I will stick at it. Going to be really tough next week - no more miss nice (although I feel like I am being mean all the time anyway). Fingers crossed things start to improve, if not I will be going to my HT and asking for help.
  14. I've had some great success with my class using class dojo.
    A bit of a faff at first but has been working since January really well.
  15. Stick with it - it WILL work! They may well try kicking back initially, but if you let them see that it won't make you change your mind, and won't wind you up, they'll get the message. Tough for a while, but worth it for the end result.Easter's not far off now!
  16. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    Of course they were terrible this afternoon, not that it is anything to do with you when it is your PPA. They will be as horrible as can be for several days to make you give up. It is up to you whether or not you do.

    8 is not a big number. I once had 12 children in at a breaktime. Wouldn't be so bad but it was a bottom maths group and there were only 17 in the class!

    Be consistent and firm rather than horrible. Be extra OTT with the praise and reward for those doing the right thing.
  17. I'm exactly the same!

    When I started at the beginning of the year, I had one boy who would constantly call out, distract others, make silly noises and so on. Nothing absolutely major but enough to be disruptive.
    I was extremely consistent- warning first and then break detention. If he continued, he would get another warning and then another detention and so on. He didn't have one break time in the entire first half term.
    Now, though, he's not an issue at all. He realised- eventually- that I wasn't going to back down and he's a completely different child now.
  18. Hi perky panda,
    Wanted to chip in here with my support! I am also struggling with a class, they are as good as gold for another teacher so I know they can behave (which makes me feel more useless!). I also know it's just about consistency. I find it really difficult, especially if I'm having a disorganised day! But I think we just need to prioritise these sanctions and let 'em know who's boss!
    Not much help but just thought I'd let you know you're not alone!!
    Good luck!
  19. My experience is limited but I had exactly the same thing. For one thing, they are never as good during PPA (take some comfort from knowing that they recognise their class teacher as being the top of the pile). Also, they probably think you've just got PMT or SOMETHING and that everything will be fun and games by Monday. On Monday they'll start to wonder if you might mean business. By Tuesday they'll be much less cocky. By Wednesday their whole world order will be upside down! It's a long game but it's worth it cos UKS2 are so amazing when you can let them loose :) x
  20. Not even that long a game, really, in the scheme of things. Just stick with it - be a robot with NO room for negotiation at all - and see where you are by the end of term...

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