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Been asked (told) to work over the summer yet?

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by hs9981, Jun 21, 2020.

  1. hs9981

    hs9981 Lead commenter

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...d-summer-holiday-deal-national-emergency.html

    Interesting how this will play with academies........

    Anyway I forsee a TLM protest coming soon (Teacherz livez matter).
     
    Tobasa, jellycowfish and Catgirl1964 like this.
  2. Morninglover

    Morninglover Star commenter

    Just say 'no'.
     
  3. drvs

    drvs Star commenter

    Not sure that many of the general public will jump on our band wagon.
     
    ilovesooty, chelsea2, steely1 and 3 others like this.
  4. Morninglover

    Morninglover Star commenter

    Good Tweet from this chap:

    Bald Headteacher@BaldHeadteacher
    All this stuff about asking teachers to work part of their summer holiday. Well, er, we do every year actually. And parts of every weekend, and parts of many evenings. We do too many hours, not too few.
     
  5. FriarLawrence

    FriarLawrence Senior commenter

    My understanding is that we're paid for term-time working only, pro-rated over 12 equal months. So in 4 weeks' time, our side of the contractual obligation is fulfilled: one full academic year, done. Wouldn't any attempt to have teachers work over the summer represent a breach of our Ts & Cs, unless we're paid overtime for it and it's strictly voluntary?

    (Fully prepared to have the QI klaxon blare on this one if anyone knows different - that's just what I've always been told about how teachers' pay under STPCD works, and why holiday working has always attracted overtime pay.)
     
  6. Kartoshka

    Kartoshka Established commenter

    Technically, yes. But there's the argument that these are unprecedented circumstances. And of course "it's for the children".
     
    renegade29 and agathamorse like this.
  7. FriarLawrence

    FriarLawrence Senior commenter

    Another difficulty is, it can only really work if every school does the same thing. How are teachers who are parents supposed to cope if their employer demands they work, but their own children's schools close for the summer?

    There is already wide variation in how schools have responded to the partial expansion of offer in June. Many are not having Year 10 / 12 in at all. Some are not only having those year groups in, but also making plans to bring in the other year groups before the end of term so that everyone gets some "teacher time".

    It seems to me that the only way the government can make summer working de facto compulsory is by forcing all state schools to do it, which is going to be next to legally impossible.
     
    tenpast7, Sally006 and agathamorse like this.
  8. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    It is pretty close to what you say. Under STPCD, the school designates 190 teaching days and 5 Inset days during which you can be directed to come to school and teach or train. Whether the government would be allowed to vary this, I cannot say. STPCD is revised by the government every year, and they seem able to change it to the detriment of teachers, such as when pay portability was removed. However, there is no precedent that I know of to make a major change mid-year. And, of course, academies are not bound by STPCD, but teachers will have something about working days in their contracts.

    But anyway, this is just a bit of speculation in the Mail, and I have not (yet) seen any sign of the government insisting on teachers working during the summer. There have been suggestions about getting other people involved, although if they think they can get oldies back into the classroom without paying us, they are sadly mistaken.
     
  9. blushingberry

    blushingberry New commenter

    Lots of 'friendly' conversations about who is going on holiday today.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  10. Smithsboy

    Smithsboy New commenter

    Yep. I have got in early and booked a few short local breaks (North and South Ireland) in July and August, with non refundable deposits against each. Although our head has said we won't be needed, this is a nice insurance policy to have and might be useful to have in place if you really aren't inclined to see your Summer break disappear!
     
  11. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide


    A surprising number of incorrect assertions are published on here (I don't mean by you FL ! :) ) claiming that teachers are on Term Time Only contracts with pay spread over 12 months despite the conspicuous absence of anything in STPCD or the Burgundy Book that says anything like that. Not true now, never been true. That's how most TAs are paid, not how teachers are paid.

    Teachers (on standard STPCD contracts) are paid an annual salary that accrues day by day over 365 days. They are paid for the whole year, including school holidays. In return for that annual salary they are required to work 1265 hours (over 195 days) of Directed Time plus

    "...such reasonable additional hours as may be necessary to enable the effective discharge of the teacher’s professional duties, including in particular planning and preparing courses and lessons; and assessing, monitoring, recording and reporting on the learning needs, progress and achievements of assigned pupils." [STPCD paragraph 51.7] "The employer must not determine how many of the additional hours referred to in paragraph 51.7 must be worked or when these hours must be worked." [STPCD 51.8]
    This was confirmed by the Supreme Court in 2017 in the test case brought by the unions, Hartley v King Edward VI College [2017] UKSC 39

    The reason you can't be required to work over the summer holidays as a teacher is because your 1265 hours of Directed Time will, in normal circumstances, have been used up by the end of the summer term.

    And when the issue is raised of teachers being required to run 'holiday camp/youth club'-types of summer camp in school premises in August it also can't be required because (a) it isn't an activity being run by your employer, some other organisation is doing it, and (b) it isn't professional teaching work requiring "the exercise of a teacher’s professional skills and judgment" [STPCD] so isn't in scope of your STPCD contract of employment with the school anyway. If a teacher volunteered to do 'holiday camp/youth club' work they should get a separate short term contract with its own pay rate and duties specified.
     
  12. hamcguin

    hamcguin New commenter

    What about the issue of the change to contracts at the start of the lockdown? Would school be able to say that staff still have directed hours to work, as most would not have worked 8 hours per day every day?
     
  13. catbanj

    catbanj Occasional commenter

    I can't speak for all .... but I have worked much longer hours during lockdown and am now back to also doing Sundays. Probably 60+ hours a week as usual. I have no intention of doing any school work for the first 4 weeks of the holiday but will work 5 days of the last 2 weeks, to get the kids sorted with college places etc. If I had to teach in the holidays I doubt I would make it to October half term, never mind Christmas.
     
  14. drvs

    drvs Star commenter

    I've seen this viewpoint adopted as a way of justifying the low professional salary. It's not quite so insulting if you consider it as pay for 40 weeks' work ...
     
    Catgirl1964 likes this.
  15. frustum

    frustum Star commenter

    You can't be directed on more than 195 days a year, either, so unless you have had explicit days off, that would be an issue.
     
  16. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    I'm not aware of any contractual changes at the start of lockdown. Lots of requests from government to schools and staff to be flexible in these unprecedented circumstances blah blah, so it was a voluntary agreement to do things differently, not contractual compulsion. I know many teachers didn't feel it was very voluntary but legally it was.

    BTW 1265 hours over 195 days is about 6.5 hours Directed Time per day, not 8.
     
  17. TheHeadteachersOffice

    TheHeadteachersOffice Occasional commenter

    I think this is the approach schools should and will take. Imo there are actually many teachers who have been working hard throughout and shouldn’t be required to give up holiday time.

    However, there are others who’ve been doing very little and the way forward would be for headteachers and individual heads of department to identify these members of staff to the government, which could then tell them to report for work for 4 weeks in the summer.
     
  18. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Yet another wind up from the fake head of the non-existent Free school! :)

    Good morning @TheHeadteachersOffice , late with your first spoof post today. Did you oversleep?
     
  19. meggyd

    meggyd Lead commenter

    Pray tell us oh wise one how you will do this so that others may follow in your hallowed headteacher's footsteps. Do you have a cunning plan?
     
  20. a1976

    a1976 Established commenter

    I don't know if this is a windup or what, but I do agree with the last bit, that there have been teachers who have been treating the situation as a "paid holiday". But then again, too many students have been using this virus as an excuse to shirk responsibility. Of course, those teachers who have worked hard over this 'crisis' will be unfairly blamed.
     

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