1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded education professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

Bad teaching = bad behaviour. Is this really the case?

Discussion in 'Behaviour' started by DollyD, Mar 5, 2009.

  1. You can have good behaviour with poor teaching (although it does make it more difficult) but you can't have effective teaching without good behaviour. I can get my bottoms set Y10 to be nice and quiet by giving the a bit of copying and colouring to do and applying a bit of 'force of personality' - fine, but how much do they learn?? I've got good behaviour but the teaching is rubbish.
    When I set them some challenging work or do practical activities, the potential for effective learning and mischief both increase dramatically, with a consequential rise in stress levels for me! If I can keep them engaged in a good activity they can make real progress and actually enjoy their learning. However, sometimes I can't keep the lid on; some very silly behaviour ensues and quality of learning plummets. It's a bit like that bloke you used to see on Saturday Night at the London Palladium (you're all probably too young!) who's act consisted of spinning an increasing number plates on wobbley sticks. He end up running around like a mad man giving the plates a quick tweak to keep them spinning - bit like me running round keeping them all on task. Sometimes, if the kids are not really in the mood, plates start to fall and the lesson smashes to bits all over the floor!
    So, next time you see a class all sitting quietly with their heads down remember, they may not actually be learning anything!
  2. It's a nightmare. I'm applying for a nice job in a quiet private school with 400 kids and no behaviour probs. Fingers crossed :)
  3. Moony

    Moony Lead commenter

    I'm an NQT and i can attest to the fact that there's this magic misconception that if your lessons are good then they'll be little angels. I'm in my second year and just coming to the end of induction, this is partly down to having to bail from my first job as my induction was going badly with a large proportion of that being due to behaviour management issue. The kids that kick off even before the lesson has started must be mind readers if this nonsence was ever to be true. But thankfully it's neither.
  4. I work in a very bad challenging school, in a rough area, and i've never met kids so rude, aggresive, abusive and so challenging. My classes are mixed from top set to a set 4, and the behaviour varies from kid to kid, class to class. After dinner the kids are hyper they will not sit down for long, and it will be any excuse to leave the classroom to go to the toilet, to get some water, to stand by a window to get some fresh air. Most of the time you get swore at, accused of something, and treated like your something from of the bottom of their shoe. And if you are a new member of staff you have got no chance because the kids target you, so that you will leave, so they will have cover and wont have to do much work. The more i observe the world around me and see the young kids messing about, using the f word in every sentence in
    conversations, smoking drugs, urinating on the back of the buses, all thinking they are gangsters, it sadens me to addmit that this is the new generation of humanity.
  5. It does scare me that there seems to be a lot of kids like this but they're not all like that I don't think, by any means. There is still hope for humanity.....probably....I think.....hope......!!
  6. Tom_Bennett

    Tom_Bennett Occasional commenter

    But we should always keep things in perspective: those of us in difficult schools can be forgiven for thinking that all kids are animals and hooligans who would eat their own young if they appeared fried in batter and covered in BBQ sauce from Domino's. But the whole world's not like that. Schools range from Mallory Towers to Fort Apache: the Bronx, and we fail to appreciate the enormity of variety present in teaching (and indeed life) if we don't acknowedge that. For every pissy bus shelter there is a patch of daffodils somewhere.
    That's my take on it. No regrets.
  7. Sigh.......[​IMG]
  8. Thanks a lot for your support!
    i must say I didn't try these. What I tried is getting them to stand up to say hello (typical from my school). I am going to try those tips, I see many teachers use them in England.
  9. Thank you! It really encourages me!
    I think the school has A LOT to do with their behaviour. This is the first Year 7 group ever and primary school teachers have always complained about boys behaviour and school's lack of response. The prefect who was in charge of guiding these boys, guess what? Is today the Secondary Head! Can you believe it?
    • It's uncanny the same thing happening all over the world. More people are allergic to sugar, artificial colouring, artificial preservatives and artificial flavourants than we'd like to know. If you notice what it does to their bodies, just think what it does to their brains and their emotions
    • Add drug abuse to the above...........
    • Bad influence of not having any discipline at home or in the education systems of the world
    • Telly programs teaching disrespect and contempt for peers and elders.
    • Vicious tendencies advocated by media.
    • Children receiving little love and comfort at home and with no normal family life.
    • All these call for superhuman teachers - and the demands on them growing daily.
    • You have my greatest sympathy and respect. I really would like to come and teach (music) in England but under the current world circumstances I seem to be too old, too experienced and too whatever. Just pray for strength each day and keep up the fine work. Maureen[​IMG]
  10. Moony

    Moony Lead commenter

    I've basically had this sort of thing in the form of some roughly 2 month old feedback from a peer observation and a drop in (different lessons). Essentially they say that i am poorly planned to unplanned and that my lessons are boring and that because of this the kids act up! Oh and there's no evidence of 3 or 5 part lesson stucture.

    The really annoying thing is that i do try and plan my lessons with variety and aside from the odd occasion when i do something different i will always for with the 3 part lesson - and those parts, particularly the main, are often broken down smaller. It really is annoying as i've been working really hard and this stuff has all come up with only a few weeks to go till i'm meant to finish my induction!

  11. Don't just try. Always have a summary, for your own purposes as much as anyone else's. Just 3 or 4 lines showing starting and transition points, with timing for each activity if that will help you.
  12. chicabonita

    chicabonita New commenter

    As a student I fell into the trap of thinking of stuff I wanted the kids to do (activity led planning) rather than what I wanted them to learn (objective led planning). Even now (2nd year) it's easy for me to fall back into that, especially if I am tired, busy, or lazy. Are you sure that what you are planning is at the right level for your kids; is it sufficiently broken down; are the activities suitable for the time of day; is it clear what you want them to learn?
    Certainly I know if my plan or preparation is poor because my lesson will be! We do blame the kids for a lot of behaviour but at the same time, we must provide appropriate lessons for them.
    Why not go to one of the people who've given you this feedback, with the lesson plan, and go through it with them? You can explain what you were aiming for, and they can explain how it came across to the class.
  13. I think we need to possibly need to refer back here to the conversation along the line of you can have as much planning, as many 'transition' points, as many wonderful activities as you can manage but if the kids come IN to the class off thier heads on E numbers, wrestling each other to the ground and totally loopy that is frankly going to go to **** before you even start.
    My advice - have a contingency plan, especially when it's windy and /or raining like today because it sends them chuffing mental.
  14. chicabonita

    chicabonita New commenter

    Yes, Dolly, but Mooney's feedback was from a peer obs- not SLT. I am the first to agree that some lessons are doomed by kids to begin with, but we do have to make sure that planning is appropriate. I know that mine sometimes hasn't been, and those lessons tend to go very badly!
  15. BigFrankEM

    BigFrankEM Established commenter

    Let´s try and analyse this concept.Rationally.

    I will "argue by analogy".

    British academics invented the World Wide Web. It went down a treat. Everyone uses it. Everybody enjoys it. Nobody in any foreign country says "we have a better system"

    British academics invented the jet engine. It went down a treat. Everyone uses it. Everybody enjoys it. Nobody in any foreign country says "we have a better system"
    British academics invented radar. It went down a treat. Everyone uses it. Everybody enjoys it. Nobody in any foreign country says "we have a better system"
    British academics invented the ultra sound body scan system. It went down a treat. Everyone uses it. Everybody enjoys it. Nobody in any foreign country says "we have a better system"

    British "academics"/ politicians (?) invented the "3 or 5 part lesson structure"

    Need I continue?

  16. Moony

    Moony Lead commenter

    But the guy is SLT, it was a peer obs in the department, he's head of the schools specialist status.
  17. chicabonita

    chicabonita New commenter

    No, peer obs are those that aren't done to judge you but for both of your professional development. If my HoD observes me that's not a peer obs, it's management.
    Anyway, are you happy with your planning? Are you sure you are doing the differentiation etc? If you are, then I would seriously go to this guy and say look, I'm doing this, I'm planning for variety, it really is the kids not allowing the lessons to go well, and what can I do about it? Because you mentioned that your induction is at risk, I think it would be worth doing. Maybe this guy only keeps order because of his SLT status, maybe he does amazing things with glue sticks to keep their attention. But the feedback you say you were given sounds unhelpful if you think you are doing those planning things already, and IMO you can ask for more details and help.
    Good luck, anyway.
  18. Sometimes bad teaching equals good behaviour....

    I know someone - who never plans lessons, has no clear aims and objectives and in their eyes no problems....

    The learners never kick off thats for sure - but then they don't need to they can turn up late, take breaks at any time - pretty much what ever they want and nothing happens......

    ..... They don't learn anything either
  19. That drives me mad. We had a teacher at my old school who never planned a lesson and the kids could pretty much do as they liked but they thought he was the best teacher ever. I shared a few classes with him and the kids were a nightmare because they couldn't get thier heads around my structured lessons and had the nerve to tell me I was the **** teacher!!!!!

Share This Page