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Bad teaching = bad behaviour. Is this really the case?

Discussion in 'Behaviour' started by DollyD, Mar 5, 2009.

  1. Going back to #8 on page 1 -
    This sounds exactly like many of my own experiences - so thank God it's not just me! And while I'm saying that with a healthy dose of cynicism, there's also that constant nagging at the back of the mind that really wonders if it IS my fault after all. And just wait until the kids get wind of the fact that they can accuse a teacher of giving them "boring" lessons and really cause us some grief.
    I am sick of being asked, practically every lesson - "are we doin' summink fun terday, miss?" Because let's face it, your average year 9's idea of fun is getting to do exactly what they like - sit huddled around mobiles and iPods (girls) and run around the room beating the **** out of their mates (boys) - so no, no fun at all.

  2. chicabonita

    chicabonita New commenter

    I agree completely, so glad to hear it said by someone with more experience than I have!
  3. I think this is a really interesting question, DollyD.
    I think teaching requires three main features - good subject knowledge and an understanding of progression in that subject; a wide repertoire of activities to draw upon to make the topic and teaching relevant; and the relationships underneath to allow you to bring the kids with you.
    They are all equally important in making a "good teacher". You can't have one without the others - I might understand my subject to the nth degree - makes no difference if I can't make it accessable through the activities I use with the kids. Likewise I can use every engagement strategy going but it's useless if I can't teach my subject. I can understand my subject and make the activities appropriate - but the kids will soon identify if I'm not genuine and don't like them. So for me, it's a complex balance between the three. And as a teacher you can plan out a lot of behavioural problems - by thinking through each of these areas.
    That said, I'm a quite experienced teacher, and know that no matter what you do, there are some classes, in some schools, on some days, where you'll have a bad day with them! And that is where the most important part of teaching needs to kick in - the relationship with yourself and your own sanity!
    If I were you I'd plan my Thursday lesson accordingly, keep working at the relationships wih them and take some comfort in the fact that it's going to take time. Think of them as your experimental group, rather than the year 9 class from hell.
    I was told once that children will test you - but they do want you to pass! Good luck.
  4. Hi Yes i do aggree that it is quit difficult to get students of that age to sit down after lunch. It is as if they have aquire so much information in 45 min, and they do not have enough time to share it with everybody. I've thrown the script out the window and i'm trying to make my afetrnoon lessons more activity based, sothat they have the opportunity to move around rather me trying to get buts in seats.
  5. Thanks folks, yeah I hadn't actually thought of getting them to stay UP rather than battling to keep them in their seats!! may have to try that and find a suitable activity :)
  6. parkert

    parkert New commenter

    I have heard this from up above before and it does make my blood boil too. I consider myself a good teacher and sometimes do outstanding lessons (though not every day as I'm only human!!!) and yet I still have to deal with appalling behaviour at times. It's often the social interaction between the kids and the group dynamics that causes problems. Does anyone blame the amount of crime and disorder int his country on bad policing? It all comes down to personal choice and we teach this to the students from day one, so it is their responsibilty
  7. stop complaining! Thisis the best education system in the world.
    get on with it!
    Live life king size ........!
  8. ????????????????????
  9. My reaction too :) is this a troll, or a member of an SMT?
  10. As this person clearly reckons they have knowledge of the education system yet is blatantly living in fairyland I'd have to the latter :)
  11. say the latter I obvious meant to say there :)
  12. BigFrankEM

    BigFrankEM Established commenter

    Notwithstanding the vacuousness of "being genuine (sic)", who ever said that it was a prerequisite of being a good teacher that you should "like" all the children.

    I have known, and still do, some much less than likeable ones. Why I even recall a few, well more than a few, on reflection, children whom a less commited person might have taken quite a strong dislike to.

    I have it on good authority (trust me, I´m a wizard in these matters) that even at Hogwarts Hall a small minority of the less well considered teachers have, on very rare occasions let it be understood, fallen into this identical trough of failure .
  13. <u>Dear Dolly & rest of you,</u>
    I logged on today looking for some advice. I have very little experience in secondary school and today was my second history lesson this year. I have two year 7: boys and girls. Boys periods are the last in the day so they are tired, noisy and reluctant to work. Today I left school really frustated because, as many of you said, I saw my work thrown away the flush.
    It also got me on my nerves having two students shouting "This is nonsense and worthless!" or "You never explain a thing!". I didn't cry because I know that I worked hard and I have the Head's support. Nevertheless, it took me ages to regroup them, reencourage them and get them to work.
    I really need some advice on how to settle them and draw their attention. I know I have just started and maybe they only need to realize how hard they will have to work to be successful. But if any of you would like to give me a hint, I will be grateful. Thanks a lot!

  14. Hi Angie, It's really disheartening isn't it when you have put loads of work in and all they do is complain. Just keep in your mind that you HAVE explained it and it was thier fault for not listening the first 12 times you told them what they should be doing!! It's hard - I know exactly how it feels - but if you keep reminding yourself you are doing a great job the confidence should show through. Ignore the little buggas and when everyone else is working tell them you'll explain it at lunch/after school/at break if they are still unsure. Funnily enough they tend to magically pick it up after that :)
    As for getting them settled - this is always tricky but have you tried date and objective already on board for them to copy, or a quiet and self explanatory activity (wordsearch? crossword?) to get them focussed as soon as they come in? I've been teaching 4 years and still find it a battle but these things can help!!
    good luck,
    DD x
  15. Year 7 boys and girls don't have the knowledge or expertise to evaluate teachers' lessons.
    They behave in this way because they have been allowed to do so by the educational system and also to some extent by the school.
    Just look on them as spiteful and malicious children have have been given the power to make comments like these with impunity.
    Nothing they say is any kind of reflection on you, your personality or your ability as a teacher.
  16. chicabonita

    chicabonita New commenter

    I saw a well-respected PE teacher, refereeing a match, use a good put-down which I 'borrowed' and used myself to good effect. He said, "You want to be a ref, you go and get some certificates". I said "If you want to be a teacher try going to uni for four years, doing a postgrad course and working for years" or something like that; despite mine being rather less than snappy, the kid actually shut up!
    (They always moan about perceived unfairness in the way I deal with different kids- I've an EBD kid who kicks off if you shout at him, it's much more effective to speak to him quietly or ignore him, and I've pointed out to the others what effect it has if he is shouted at and kicks off- they see it every time they have Geography- for all the good it's done!)
  17. noemie

    noemie Occasional commenter

    I haven't read the whole thread but I think you got the wrong end of the stick. Bad teaching leads to bad behaviour, that doesn't mean to say that bad behaviour comes from bad teaching. There are a range of reasons for bad behaviour and mostly it has nothing to do with the teaching, but I also know that with certain classes I make the effort of having impeccable lessons because that diminishes the risks of having bad behaviour. It doesn't always work but I can't afford the "average" lessons that I get away with with better behaved groups.
  18. I understand what you're saying. It is a bit chicken and egg but you have brought up an interesting point; can behaviour ever be good when teaching is 'bad'?
    There is a distinction that MUST be made between good teaching and good classroom management skills . They are not one and the same.
    When I was training on my GTP a consultant came into our department and saw me teach a year 10 group and they were vile. He went to my HOD and said that my lesson was great and appropriate for the group but they just were just obnoxious, rude and badly behaved. He said that my TEACHING was great but I needed to work on my classroom management (I was a trainee afterall so hardly a shock). He then said he'd seen a member my my dept (he didn't name names but i knew who it was) whose lesson was, frankly, dull but they were so **** scared of the teacher there wasn't a problem with classroom management.
  19. noemie

    noemie Occasional commenter

    Very interesting point! I keep getting satisfactory for behaviour and good for teaching and learning so maybe I need to think about that...On the other hand I'm not sure I ever want my classes to be at the point where they are terrified of me. It needs to be a balance of respect and interest, but as I said and as we all know there are a number of reasons for bad behaviour.

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