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Avoid income tax - have children

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Vince_Ulam, Feb 11, 2019.


Children or income tax? Is this a good offer?

  1. Women - Yes, this would persuade me

    2 vote(s)
  2. Women - No

    6 vote(s)
  3. Men - I would discuss it with my wife, our household should pay less tax

    1 vote(s)
  4. Men - No

    4 vote(s)
  1. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    With Hungary's population falling by 32,000 annually, this is an innovative way to bolster a nation's culture against dilution through immigration and the eventual marginalisation of the native population:

    Have four kids and never pay income tax again, Hungarian mothers told

    'Hungarian women who have at least four children will be exempt from paying income tax for the rest of their lives as part of an effort to reverse population decline, the country's prime minister has said.'
    News.Sky.com, 11th February 2019.
  2. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    I guess that's the result of the EU open borders... people moved to more affluent areas to work.

    We love the benefits of drawing people away from their birth nations... but we don't think of the consequences of us hoovering up the best and brightest. How much does the rest of world subsidise our NHS medical training needs by supplying us with trained staff.
  3. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Looking at it Romania and Bulgaria have suffered worse population declines... 2 million for Bulgaria since the end of the Cold War and 3.5 million for Romania.
  4. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    I would love to have had 4 children but we could only afford 2.
  5. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    This is not so different to what happens here if you have lots of children, though only while they are under 18. A couple of years ago after the budget there was an online tax calculator to see how the changes affect you. I put my details in and then after seeing the section on children and tax credits wondered what the case would be for my neighbour with his 6 children and non-working wife.

    I don't know what he earns, he has a "good job" though not particularly highly paid. For all salaries between £30K and £50K, he got all the tax he paid and then more too back in the form of tax credits and child benefit.

    So, working with no or 2 children (our situation as it changed over the years), pay tax from salary. Working with 6 children, receive more than gross salary in combined income.
  6. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    Is this just directed to the mothers or to both the parents? I would think that if you had four children to look after there wouldn't be much time to have a job that paid enough to have to pay income tax for quite a number of years, so if this offer is only directed towards the mothers then it's not much of an offer. In addition to which, if all these mothers/parents are not going to be paying income tax, then where do the funds come from for all the public amenities and services they and their kids will be using?

    Population decline is on the whole a very good thing unless the human race is bent on making itself extinct.

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    Just another device for forcing women out of the workplace and back into the home.
  8. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    The law will apply only to women.

    I am unaware of the childcare system in Hungary, or whether Hungarians retain close family networks, but with life expectancy high I can see that on balance this law would benefit those women who plan to have children.

    Presumably wages for working men & women would rise with fewer women in the workforce, and with tighter immigration controls.

    Only a natural disaster or large-scale nuclear conflict would lead to our extinction, but there is no harm in nations seeking to sustain their native population replacement rate.
    agathamorse likes this.
  9. Jamvic

    Jamvic Star commenter

    Nothing at all could have persuaded me to have 4 children. :eek:
  10. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    I am thinking ahead to climate change and food/water shortages; certain areas of globe becoming inhabitable; depletion of natural resources etc., so yes, probably through war or disease. And no, there is no harm in nations seeking to sustain their population rate, but only if it's a sustainable population level. No point in having more people in the country than you can feed etc.
    border_walker and needabreak like this.
  11. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    We can expect much hardship in many places but these place will become habitable again. The climate is always in flux.

    I cannot disagree with this but I have concerns about how this might be managed.
  12. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    What element of force is involved?

    An incentive yes... I'm not seeing the force... also why do you assume that it will be the mother who stays home to care for them? Men are capable of being stay-at-home parents too.
    Vince_Ulam likes this.
  13. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    BIimey I never ever got tax credits, not sure a single income full timer would qualify even now on a teachers salary... not sure how your neighbour would get all his tax back on £30-50k and haven't the rules changed? People have told me it related to hours worked and suchlike... *goes a bit vague and wonders what this thread is really about, then admits not having read all posts. :oops:
  14. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    I expect they could couple up with our Brexiteers *other political ideas are available feel free to pick one, and come to an arrangement to take in some migrant workers or refugees, all problems solved at once... Apparently.
  15. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    Child benefits for 6 children took combined income past the point of gross salary. He wouldn't get his total tax back through credits alone. I don't know the ins and outs, it was an online calculator.

    What surprised me was that we could be doing the same job and while I paid tax on my income, his total income would be greater than my salary before tax. So in effect, he was avoiding income tax as per the thread title due to having 6 children.
  16. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Think you lost me there cos you only qualify for tax credits up to a certain income and now don't get child benefit for all six children do you? (Thought I heard that on the news a few years back), but I could be mistaken. Did you use the government website? It's prob the most accurate.
  17. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    Child benefit is payable for all children as far as I'm aware, the idea of limiting it to the first 2 or similar is floated every now and then but hasn't been acted on I don't think.

    It seems that it's all been replaced by Universal Credit now and the tax credit is no more. At the time, the cap was at about £50K, I think it tapered as income increased.
  18. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    Let's just say I am assuming that turning more Hungarian men into caring, sharing house-husbands is not Orban's purpose in introducing these tax incentives. Perhaps he needs to introduce a gold medal pinned on by the President for Hungarian women who have eight children?
  19. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Leaders of developed nations recognise that their economies require women in the workplace. There is no indication that Mr. Orban is any different in this.
  20. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Oh I see.

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