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Asking for a teaching allowance

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by trinity0097, Apr 20, 2008.

  1. trinity0097

    trinity0097 New commenter

    Are you in an independent or state school?

    In a state school you wouldn't be allowed to have a TLR for this as it's firstly admin related rather than T&L, and doesn't need the skills of a teacher, you also wouldn't be line managing/overseeing other staff.
  2. pastyprincess

    pastyprincess New commenter

    independent grammar school
    my friend is in another independent grammar and they're advertising it as a teaching allowance point.

    other teachers in our school have teaching allowances for the school magazine/newsletter etc.

    i was thinkin i should do it voluntary for a while and then ask but in our school seemingly if you do this they'll take advantage of you.
  3. gavcradd

    gavcradd New commenter

    Firstly, as someone else said it fits precisely none of the criteria for TLR payment.

    Secondly, I think the clue is in the question, where you say "I have identified a need". So you've seen soemthing needs doing, not the head, you've volunteered and you want paying for it? I don't think it takes a genius to work out that a head won't want to be spending money on things that (a) they haven't identified as important, and (b) someone's volunteered for anyway.

  4. gavcradd

    gavcradd New commenter

    Aah, sorry, just read the bit about it being an indepependent grammar school. Whoops :-(
  5. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    None of my business, but it's strange to call them 'teaching allowances' as they're clearly nothing to do with teaching!

    I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for the head to 'throw out a few points' before he retires; presumably, an independent school has a budget that he has to stick to and retiring heads don't usually do the equivalent of the prime minister's resignation honours list - why should they? Nothing to gain!
  6. Go and train properly as a librarian and then you might be capable of doing the job! Why are you all moaning about unqualified teachers and then you have the nerve to think that you can do my job without any experience, qualifications, expertise or knowledge?
  7. pastyprincess

    pastyprincess New commenter

    ach maggie wise up love!

    buy books and other resources, run competitions/table quizzes etc. and there's your answer.

    personally, i find librarians totally and utterly useless.

    your a librarian, you check books in and out and make sure things are tidy.
  8. Your ignorance is astounding! I might as well say that all you do is polish your chalk, take long holidays and go home at 3.15.

    But I would never say that about teachers as I have worked in schools for many years and know better - just have a look at the answer that I put on this thread before you make such fatuous comments again:


    Could you do the job of a chartered librarian in school - no way as you have such a petty closed mind. Would I find a teacher like you "totally and utterly useless"? Yes, I think so, you cannot even use correct grammar. So, get out more and meet some of the fabulous school librarians who are working their socks off to support teachers and students. Like these people:

  9. pastyprincess

    pastyprincess New commenter

  10. Oh, add childish and infantile as well as arrongance and stupidity. I am amazed that you manage to be a teacher - oh, perhaps you like to work at the same level as your students.

    What's wrong with experience and expertise?
  11. pastyprincess

    pastyprincess New commenter

    maggie, you are a librarian. expertise in the dewey decimal system?

    look you started this love, as you were obviously deeply offended that someone else could do your job.

    the teaching and allowance point i was referring to would involve ordering in books, stimulating interest in the library etc.

    i run a reading group as well, i'm pretty sure i know what i'm doing.

    so please don't be put out that someone gets paid extra to do your job.
  12. I won't post any more because it is obviously pointless as you can never meet me to realise just how ignorant you are. You think that by ordering a few books and running a reading group you are doing a librarian's job. Just as a TA might think that they are doing yours?

    I tried to explain in more detail just what that involves and you answered by calling me menopausal. Not a very adult reaction. Did you actually read any of what I posted? I suppose not or you would have some understanding of what the job really involves. With your level of knowledge and background, you would not be doing my job at all but the work of a low-paid library assistant. You don't know what you are doing at all as you obviously have never met a professional school librarian. If you can be bothered, look at the work of the SLA School Librarians of the Year - way above your level.

    Just an idea of a typical day for us:

    Before school: open for students doing homework, reading etc. I give advice on suitable resources for homework and coursework; also advise as to suitable books to encourage reading development.

    Period 1: Design Technology class working on paper engineering. I take the first part of the class, talking about the development of pop-up books and showing examples. Then I advise on suitable methods of developing research and presentation.
    Break: Squeeze in a few minutes to find some resources for GCSE Science, which I tag carefully, thinking about how students will use them, put on our website or on a social bookmarking site.
    Period 2: A-Level Psychology - work with the students on advanced internet searching techniques, citation and referencing, using interactive tutorials that I have created and put on our VLE.
    Period 3: spend some time creating a wiki that I am using with students to develop collaborative learning. Email the teacher for ideas and make the resources for the class. Research the topic in depth to find and evaluate web sites to put on the wiki. Create lesson plans for the 10 weeks that we are devoting to this project.
    Lunch: manage over 100 students doing a variety of tasks, including pupil librarians. Help with homework and coursework across the curriculum. Discuss the Carnegie list with a group. Sort out any problems with our extensive ICT facilities.
    Period 4: Year 9 Geography class - lead the lesson on research skills using materials and resources that I have created and developed.
    Period 5: English lesson - reading programme developed by me with some input from the department. Help students to choose books using my extensive knowledge of children's literature and my knowledge of the students themselves, including their reading levels which I have accessed from a database earlier.
    After school: attend HOD meeting and present a paper on improving out teaching of referencing.
    Evening: spend some time looking around the professional blogs, reading about Web2.0 and Library 2.0 and planning how we can best use our VLE, website and other sites more effectively in the future.

    Out of the hundreds of resources that we issued to students and staff today - how many did I "stamp out"? None. How many shelves did I tidy? None. That is my assistant's role.

    Good luck with your library assistant's role. Your school will miss out, of course, particularly the students. Because if your school employed a professional librarian, then they could expect a service like my school enjoys.
  13. gavcradd

    gavcradd New commenter

    I have to say that I find maggie_lib's posts highly amusing, almost as if she has to justify her role constantly to everyone she meets, so she's always in this "battle ready" mode!

    I agree that a trained, fully qualified librarian would do a better job than a teacher or any other member of staff doing is as an additional responsibility. However, I also think that the money spent on a trained, fully qualified librarian is a luxury that not many schools will be able to justify.

    Your typical day makes you sound like wonder woman, an all in one teacher / learning support / SEN / ICT technician / librarian. Come off it, you don't relaly do all that and still claim that your job title is "librarian" do you? Someone's shafting you somewhere if you do!
  14. My favourite bit was the part where she told the children about the development of pop up books. Is there a course that I can go on to develop this particular knowledge and skills?

    Open the book 'There it is!'
    Close the book 'Where's it gone?'
    Open the book 'Oh! There it is!'
    Close the book 'Where's it gone again?'

    No, all joking aside... looking at what you do in a typical day, I'd pay you about a 100 grand a year. I'd also pay you on a bonus system - an extra £50 cash in your hand every time you use the phrase 'My extensive knowledge'.
  15. pastyprincess

    pastyprincess New commenter

    fair enough, you earn your money, point taken.

    but you're upset because you know that a teacher can do your job as an 'extra responsibility'.

    get off your high horse maggie
  16. silaqui

    silaqui New commenter

    Bloody hell Maggie!

    We have about 5 different people doing all those different jobs! Our Librarian organises the library and associated resources, and takes computer bookings - ICT techies manage the VLE and similar stuff, Teachers (ably assisted by TA's) do all the teaching bits and group work stuff... Get yourself a payrise!

    Why are you leading so many lessons? Tell the teachers to do their own job!
  17. Yes, I do get on my high horse a bit, I know, but then I am the only professional librarian who posts on the TES as far as I am aware. Perhaps I should persuade some of my colleagues to enter the fray!!

    The reason that I react is that so many teachers are ignorant about my job and so many of my friends have lost theirs over the years because of attitudes like the ones that have been shown on this thread. So many of you are complaining that TAs are threatening your jobs - this is what we have had to live with for decades. Then, you belittle the job that we are trying to do to support your work - is it any wonder that I am more than defensive? I have worked alongside teachers for my entire career and have huge respect for the job that you do. Many of my family and friends are teachers also. Is it too much to ask to get some of that respect back?

    Yes, the day that I outlined is typical. The pop-up bit was perhaps a bit silly to add, but then if I said more specific things that I do, it might be more identifiable. In fact, I did miss a lot of stuff out.

    I suppose that librarians are to blame for the fact that so many teachers do not know that we work at this level. You most probably have never met a "proper" chartered librarian as there are not enough of us employed in schools. Most of the people that you think are "librarians" are actually low-paid clerical assistants. Unfortunately, our professional body does not have the power to enforce the title "librarian" being used only by those with professional qualifications. Just like anyone can call themselves a "teacher".

    But my job description does cover everything that I wrote and more. I do develop the VLE etc and have very high ICT skills. I do lead lessons alongside a teaching colleague as my skills complement theirs and my educational and professional qualifications are equal to or exceed theirs also!

    There was a supplement to the Guardian on Tuesday about HE and FE libraries and how librarians are developing their role in the light of Web2.0 technologies. School librarians are also working in these ways - this is not a "luxury" but a necessity in a changing world.
  18. just popped into thread - magster still on her highest horse?..chill!..
    you sound v v concientious, pasty, and as already a teacher you would do a great job. I know what its like when you see others not doing their jobs and you want to volunteer, but you will just be taken for granted by sounds of things.
  19. Now then, now then.... let's give Maggie a break.

    She is just cross that people think that just anyone can do a librarian's job.... but I think she has summed up the problem herself:

    Yes, anybody with a bit of common sense could do what an average school librarian does.... but Maggie isn't an average school librarian - she is qualified and therefore can offer much more to a school (some of which does overlap with 'teaching' - which is another reason why people are shooting her down). If EVERY school funded a qualified librarian I'd bet that teachers would have more respect for the role.

    Oh, only teasing about the pop up books.
  20. frustum

    frustum Star commenter

    "i've identified a need in our school for someone to take responsibility for the school library. it's really dire and there's so much room for improvement"

    If a school currently has nobody responsible for the library in any way, they're unlikely to respond well to the suggestion of employing a qualified librarian, and probably the most that can be hoped for is some time for a teacher to try and make some improvements.

    If librarians want to put their case (and Maggie makes a very good case), the way forward might be for them to try and do outreach from their current schools, a bit like ASTs working in other schools.

    On the other hand, going into other schools and telling them that a mere teacher can do nothing is not going to help. Go and show teachers what could be done, given an interested teacher with some support from a qualified librarian, and then put the case to management for employing a librarian.

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