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As Lockdown is Eased...

Discussion in 'Personal' started by MyOrchid, May 7, 2020.

  1. MyOrchid

    MyOrchid Occasional commenter

    Epidemiological evidence suggests that people who are overweight or obese are more likely to have serious complications from Covid 19, while people from BAME backgrounds are around 4 times more likely to die of the virus, when age is taken into account.

    Should people who are judged to be

    [This comment/section has been removed for breaching our Community Guidelines/Terms and conditions]
    backgrounds be told to stay in isolation for their own safety?
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2020
    Kandahar and DrLinus like this.
  2. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    If you haven't got anything better to do this afternoon you could eat another cream cake and polish your

    [This comment/section has been removed for breaching our Community Guidelines/Terms and conditions]
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2020
  3. MyOrchid

    MyOrchid Occasional commenter

    Please read the post more carefully. I am asking a question, not saying it should happen.

    It occurred to me that it seems OK to tell elderly people to stay in, but is less acceptable to give the same advice/order to people based on their BMI or ethnicity, despite the fact that they appear to be especially vulnerable.

    I am not a racist, if that is what your reply implied.

    And "jackboots" is not a proper noun.
    Kandahar and Brunel like this.
  4. abwdSTEM

    abwdSTEM Occasional commenter

    It is a valid although difficult and delicate question.

    Rather then specifically targetting ethnicity or disability shouldn't the question be "Should people who are judged to be in a high risk category be advised to stay in isolation for their own safety?

    The high risk categories might include: disability, age, gender and ethnic group.

    Difficult questions need to be asked sometimes even if some people are offended.
  5. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    I would say it more high time people also asked what they could do for their country etc...

    We know - we know - being overweight is going to raise your odds of complications from the virus. So if you then are someone ranting about the virus and you fear it, lose some bleddy weight!

    Lady on BBC talking about BAME stats right now as I talk and she says they are based on 2011 census figures, that death certificates do not make clear the cause of death and the stats do not group occupations. (Her point being if these people were working in poor areas, that also raises death rates).

    She was not denying it is an issue, just adding it would have been more secure had the above been adjusted.
    artboyusa, ajrowing and eleanorms like this.
  6. MyOrchid

    MyOrchid Occasional commenter

    Thank you for avoiding the knee-jerk, defensive reaction that topics like this seem to provoke in some.
    I like your suggestion of the slightly varied question.

    It just seems odd to me that elderly people, many of whom are able, resourceful, fit, creative and who may have lived through traumatic life events are told to stay in the house, whereas as soon as the topics of ethnicity or obesity are raised you apparently can't tell these people what to do at all!

    Looking at it another way, if the government told obese and BAME people to stay indoors it would be pilloried by some. However, if it told them to go out, despite their greater risk of Covid related death, it could be accused of not caring!
  7. eleanorms

    eleanorms Occasional commenter

    It's why studying the statistics of the epidemic is important. And difficult, because there are so many variables, so many accusations of ignoring evidence flying around, so few really provable facts. It has taken too long for anybody to say that obesity proves a major risk - but it was staring us in the face from the evidence of the poor, poor people in Italy, let alone here. Ethnic groups are much harder to analyse - is it a physiological cause, an economic or employment one, or just because many BAME tend to live in densely populated cities? But to answer your question, yes, I think at risk groups do need to be advised to shield more carefully. We have four months till the Autumn. Go out into the sunshine in that time, get some vitamin D and lose some weight.
  8. harsh-but-fair

    harsh-but-fair Star commenter

  9. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    Another risk factor is being male.
    Not for infection rate, but for outcome. Men are twice as likely to die of CV as women.

    This article explores some of the possible reasons why, and debunks other possible reasons.

    It's a real issue - men are more at risk of dying of CV.
    Factoring that in would have a huge effect on lockdown issues.
  10. Laphroig

    Laphroig Lead commenter

    People should make their own decisions based on evidence from a variety of sources and not just the government.
    Lidnod, Nanny Ogg and EmanuelShadrack like this.
  11. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    I'm sure you'd get annoyed if those who are obese or BAME were furloughed while you had to go to work still.
    Laphroig likes this.
  12. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Especially as the overwhelming majority of men who get CV do not die from it. Old age combined with underlying health conditions remains the most serious risk.
    border_walker and Laphroig like this.
  13. abwdSTEM

    abwdSTEM Occasional commenter

    Its normally used as a generic term for a type of boot normally worn by cavalry soldiers and not a specific boot.

    I suppose it might used used as a proper noun if used to describe a specific boot as part of a specific uniform for a specific regiment, for example 7th Cavalry Number 1 Dress Uniform Jackboot (if such an item exists) but that is a long shot (military pun not intended :) )
  14. MyOrchid

    MyOrchid Occasional commenter

  15. harsh-but-fair

    harsh-but-fair Star commenter

  16. MyOrchid

    MyOrchid Occasional commenter

    I am at work, and have been all year. I am a teacher based overseas and have worked either in school or from home since the start of the restrictions where I live. So this also makes me an immigrant. I enjoy work as I find it rewarding and it gives purpose to my life. I have no control or knowledge over whether other people are furloughed or not, so it would make no sense to be annoyed by it.

    Once again, I am not racist, if that's what you are attempting, clumsily, to imply.

    There was an interview with a chap on Sky TV a little while ago. He was South Asian but had moved to the UK many years previously. His explanation for the disproportionately large morbidity amongst BAME people (his term) included large, multigenerational households and low incomes. He was keen to get the message across that ethnic minorities should not be stigmatised as a result of coronavirus. This is what got me thinking about the sensitivity around telling certain groups what to do while others seem to be treated differently. I wondered whether he would prefer government advice to be to stay in or to go out, hence my original post.
    Kandahar likes this.
  17. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    ???? Yes - we all know that.
    The majority of the other groups discussed on this thread don't die of CV either.

    Black people are 4 times as likely as white to die from CV.
    Men are twice as likely as women to die of CV.

    Most people, whatever their ethnicity or gender, recover.

    Yes, there is a clear age profile to this disease - but that doesn't negate the fact that men are more likely to die from the disease.

    This is old data, but still irrelevant to the point.

  18. MyOrchid

    MyOrchid Occasional commenter

    So, government advice should be for elderly, obese men from ethnic minorities, with underlying health issues and who smoke to self-isolate, rather than telling everyone to stay in the house......?

    That shouldn't be too difficult as they may not be out and about much anyway.
    Kandahar and florian gassmann like this.
  19. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    According to the 2011 census 57% of the UK black population lives in London while only 9% of the UK white population does [a factor of 7]. While demographics shifts may have occurred in the last 9 years, these numbers will still largely be correct ... roughly.

    As London was hit disproportionately hard in the initial stages of the UK outbreak [and with a 2-3 week delay on death numbers versus infection] then the urban London population will be reflected in death numbers to a higher degree than non-London. But give it 3-4 weeks and then see if the BAME numbers still stand.


    Oh, and the UK Asian population, London comprises 34% of the UK asian population... again, another reason why the BAME figure might be so high.

    It'd be of great interest to see an ethnic breakdown for London alone... and not a national breakdown... especially as London is now past it's peak. That might give more insight than the rather poorly structured information coming from media reports [not surprised]
  20. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    What a spectacularly silly first response...
    Kandahar, Aquamarina1234 and MyOrchid like this.

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