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Are you in favour of primary LGBT lessons for young children?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by TES_Rosaline, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Problematic, to be diplomatic.
    bevdex likes this.
  2. bevdex

    bevdex Star commenter

    It could be worse GDW - the whole class could be playing!
  3. peter12171

    peter12171 Star commenter

    I know we’re not discussing sexuality here, but this is one of the problems of the LGBT term, which is in the title of the thread.

    LGB - types of sexuality
    T - gender.

    Two different areas being mixed together in one acronym.
    lanokia and Vince_Ulam like this.
  4. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    "What's that? You heard that some mums live with other ladies and not men? And some men get married to other men? Yes. They do. Yes. Not as often as men and women getting married and having kids but men do marry men and women do marry women. Yes.

  5. CheeseMongler

    CheeseMongler Lead commenter

    Does this help?
  6. CheeseMongler

    CheeseMongler Lead commenter

    Wow, there statistically valid numbers of separated twins that are transgender?!
  7. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    of course not! I'm assuming you know that
  8. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    It should be expected. There is significant concordance between identical twins of many other formally described affective and cognitive syndromes e.g. schizophrenia.
  9. Spoofer4114

    Spoofer4114 Lead commenter

    I hear what you are saying about 'the truth' but in my school we have several trans students. Some staff and students (not all) know who they are and the change they have made and refer to them using the pronoun of their 'new' gender. Would you not do this?

    Some of these students have come from other schools and do not want everyone knowing. It would be a problem if a teacher 'mis-gendered' them.
  10. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    1. All staff should know for safeguarding purposes.
    2. All pupils should know for their own personal safety and to anticipate unfortunate relationship fallout
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  11. Spoofer4114

    Spoofer4114 Lead commenter

    What safeguarding purposes? Can you give me an example?

    How are other students unsafe?

    So far there have been no issues regarding any of our trans students, as far as I know anyway. I am interested to hear what problems you may envisage.
    LunaBlue123 likes this.
  12. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Lead commenter

    Yes. But this is the point. LGBT itself is a political term because it denotes intersectionality. To take issue with it is to take issue with the liberal-left establishment, in fact to take issue with the law itself.

    To be arguing over genetics or the sizes of men and womens brains, is to fight the wrong war. The proportion of the population who believe that there are no inate differences between men and women is very small


    and yet this is the ideology that we are being directed to teach children.
    It is allready showing disastrous consequences. Here are some of the main points:

    "The report, compiled by David Bell, a clinician and former governor at the trust, said the staff had “very serious ethical concerns” that children were making life-changing decisions with “inadequate” examination and consent.

    Some openly homophobic parents pushed their children to transition because they were gay, the report said. In other cases, youngsters seized on transition as a “solution” after abuse or bereavement. Their histories were not properly explored by clinicians struggling with “huge and unmanageable caseloads” and afraid of being accused of transphobia if they questioned the “rehearsed” surface presentation.

    The report said Gids had tried to “placate” lobby groups such as the Mermaids charity, which campaigns for children to be given sex-change treatment."

    So here we have, like with the situation of mainly Muslim parents fighting the "no outsiders" program, with groups theoretcically high in the identity stakes pitted against one-another.

    I think we that we are now dealing with a child-safety crisis comparable in scale to the child trafficking crisis.
    Our abilities as educators to resist are hampered in two significant ways. Teachers on the whole are to willing to buy into gender ideology on the basis of equality without always thinking. A reductionist and hyper-literalist interpretation of child development is being presented, not because it is true but because it justifies a fixation with gender equality

    "The toys children play with have an impact not only on how they see themselves and on what skills they learn, but also on how their brains physically develop.

    Some psychologists argue that this helps to explain why certain professions are so male-dominated."

    Just listen to these weasel words. This is pure social-constructivist propaganda. The idea that if we compel little girls to play with lego-bricks will result in more girls become bricklayers in later life is fantasy.

    Secondly, more importantly teachers silence is compelled by Equalities legislation. Specifically the Equalities act 2010.
    lanokia, 99sobi, peter12171 and 2 others like this.
  13. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    You make good points @alex_teccy although I haven't read all your links to see if I agree with everything you have said.

    Right up to your last sentence. Teachers' silence is not compelled by the Equality Act 2010. That Act says nothing at all about what employees can say, it's about discriminatory policies practices and procedures (among other things). Maybe you were thinking of laws about so-called 'hate speech'? Or professional misconduct allegations?
  14. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

  15. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    For those reasons your SLT is choosing to lie to your colleagues & the school's pupils.

    For the same reasons schools routinely separate the sexes for toileting, showering & changing.

    I hope this peace continues. Expect things to become less manageable as this cluster grows.
  16. Spoofer4114

    Spoofer4114 Lead commenter

    The SLT don't lie to teachers and students. Some teachers are informed that new students are transitioning, namely the teachers that are to teach the student. There is no need for anyone else to know and some transitioning students want as few people as possible knowing. Given that these students are particularly fragile it is not too much to respect their wishes. Other students transition whilst at the school. Everyone knows who they are. It is not an issue for anyone at the school or in the local community.

    Boys/girls have their own changing room to keep them safe? Safe from whom? I would have though privacy was the reasoning behind separate toilets and changing rooms. I know some boys have been attacked in the toilets but this has been by other boys not a girl transitioning. Not yet anyway.

    Things may change, we will see. Up until now staff/students/parents have been accepting and supportive. I would be surprised to see that situation alter..
  17. mabelgoodrich

    mabelgoodrich New commenter

  18. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    You have stated that not all staff & pupils have been told that some of the latter identify as transgender, their opposite sex, hence they are being told lies:

    From their opposite sex. Were you unaware of this?

    People, adults & children, generally resent being lied to by those they expected to trust.
  19. Spoofer4114

    Spoofer4114 Lead commenter

    They are not being told lies, they are just not being told. Staff find out eventually as do students. Difficult to keep secret to be honest.

    What makes you think toilets or changing rooms would be unsafe? Do you have evidence of transgender students attacking other students in a toilet or changing room?

    As I said people find out eventually and they are really not bothered. No one, to my knowledge, has complained about being 'lied to'. People, particularly the young, are very accepting nowadays.
    LunaBlue123 likes this.
  20. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Of course these are lies. If someone is introduced to your colleagues and pupils as a girl when they are in fact a boy, or vice versa, then your colleagues are being lied to.

    Lies are difficult to maintain when people can see what is in front of their eyes. What matters then is the fallout.

    It will depend upon the extent of the deception.

    They are likely afraid for their jobs or being accused of 'hate crime'.

    Well, you say that, but why then the lies?

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