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Are you in favour of primary LGBT lessons for young children?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by TES_Rosaline, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. num3bers

    num3bers Occasional commenter

    IN answer to the first part - well I have and it has been a very uncomfortable time which has made me re think my position entirely.

    For the second part - let me reverse it. a woman cannot become a man ( any more than a man can become a woman). This is the basic lie.

    As for children being taught this. Well whatever floats your boat I suppose and I am happy for other teachers to teach it to children - so long as you don't teach it to my children.
    BetterNow likes this.
  2. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    well, I am not going to start quoting and listing, but there are plenty of cases of threats, intimidation, arrests, banning, sacking, etc, hence the worry.

    I have witnessed two very very nasty very aggressive incidents myself.

    I know I could be sacked or arrested for my statement above, and indeed, feel a bit shaky sometimes, asserting this on line or in the classroom,

    however, this is an important principle that we have been called upon to uphold, simply by virtue of being science teachers at time when these particular lies are being forcefully pushed.

    There have been a few glimmers of hope that the tide may be turning, but there is a long way to go still, and I hope i will be one of those who has the courage to stand up for the truth right to the bitter end, however long it takes, and what ever happens to me in the mean time.
    timwallach, corgie11, englbee and 4 others like this.
  3. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    its very simple, the threats, aggression and violence related to the transmovement is coming almost exclusively from (some) transwomen.

    Transmen ( women living as men) are almost never involved. They are very occasionally, and likewise, there are many transwomen who are not involved.

    This is one of the biggest causes of outrage, that this Male-against-female bullying and violence, which falls into a very well established social norm of male violence and domination of females, is being classed as FEMALE crime, and skewing statistics signficantly, as although there are statistically few transwomen, they are statistically far more likely to commit violent crime, than women.

    Incidently, one of the biggest losers from this aggressive movement is the peaceful, non aggressive transwomen, who don't want to support this insistence that transwomen are women, and rape threats and death threats to anyone who disagrees
    corgie11, englbee, BetterNow and 5 others like this.
  4. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Is it National Jones Day?

    corgie11, bevdex and agathamorse like this.
  5. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Allsorts, Stonewall &c are forever pushing their transgender affirmative literature at schools & teachers but parents are beginning to exercise their power and their rights over their own children:

    Transgender booklet suspended in Warwickshire schools
    CoventryTelegraph.net, 11th April 2019.
  6. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    You are right to be concerned. However many years an education professional might have given to their work or to a particular institution, whatever their personal investment in that institution, it can all be trumped by statements of fact and the voicing of unfashionable views:

    Fairford school worker 'sacked for view on LGBT teaching'
    BBC.co.uk, 16th April 2019.
    num3bers likes this.
  7. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    Are you sure about this or is this more scare mongering?
  8. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    I note that whilst being against teaching children that people have all sorts of relationships and should not be judged for it she then compares it to the teaching of religious beliefs.

    Personally I have no problem with teaching students about understanding an not being prejudicial, does that put me at odds of religious belief?
    agathamorse likes this.
  9. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    The writer of the song died yesterday.
  10. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    Not sure I agree with you.

    Stonewall only began including support for TG issues, IIRC, in 2015 ironic really considering what instigated the Stonewall Riots in 1969.
  11. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    er, yes, crimes committed by transwomen are counted statistically as crimes committed by women, which skews the statistics hugely. For example O.5% of people convicted of rape in the UK are "female". The definition of rape in the UK requires the perpetrator to have a penis.

    What have I said about relationships or religious beleifs???
    BetterNow likes this.
  12. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    I thought you said skewed the stats hugely?

    It was in a link to the woman who was sacked after she posted on social media, perhaps it wasnt your link?
  13. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    It IS a huge skew of the stats, from 0% to 0.5%! what percentage increase is that? And that is just one example. There are many many examples. Here is another one

    remember this case? They were charged as women.

    Gang of four women repeatedly kicks and punches man, 19, to the floor in vicious late-night brawl at London's Leicester Square station
    • They used their heels to kick the helpless teenager just after 2am on Sunday
    • Party-goers can be seen repeatedly stamping on the boy as he lies face down
    • The four women, all aged in their 20s, were arrested after the violent attack

    Shocking footage shows a gang of four women digging their stilettos into a man as he writhes in agony on the floor.

    The party-goers can be seen repeatedly stamping on the 19-year-old as he lies faces down on the floor at Leicester Square tube station.

    Undeground staff tried to restrain the women but they continued to lash out, using their heels to kick the helpless teenager just after 2am on Sunday morning.
    timwallach and BetterNow like this.
  14. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    I honestly don't know what you mean by "scaremongering". What is "scaremongering" about anything I have said?
  15. bessiesmith

    bessiesmith Occasional commenter

    It's interesting to me that feelings are running so high on both sides of the debate. It appears that the content of the teaching will be a) it is completely acceptable (if not normal) for people to have a partner of the same sex and b) some people choose to be known as a different gender to the one to which they were born. Controversy surrounds whether transpeople in fact become the opposite gender or not.

    By comparison, I am an atheist but send my children to a CofE primary school because it's the only one we can walk to. They are taught as 'fact' all kinds of things such as the Christmas and Easter stories, various New Testament miracles, Noah's flood etc. This is fine by me. We discuss it at home; I try to be as neutral as possible, pointing out that 'some people believe.... I believe..... you will need to make up your own mind.' I think it's good that they are exposed to other opinions and learn to understand that adults don't always agree. The most important things I hope they will gain is that I am respectful about other people's beliefs even if I don't share them and that they are responsible for deciding what to think.
    Can't a similar approach work for LGBT lessons?
    timwallach, bexallya, 99sobi and 7 others like this.
  16. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    As far as I am concerned, yes, but that still puts me in the wrong legally.
  17. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Stories from the Bible are typically introduced as exactly those but activists will not permit such statements as “‘Transgender’ is when a person feels different from the body they were born into" to be prefixed with 'some people believe that'. They wish children to believe their scientific & philosophical errors as inviolable facts.
    BetterNow likes this.
  18. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    This is like the scaremongering about how eating A is a terrible risk to life as it double the risk of X cancer.

    When the risk of getting X cancer would go from 1 in 2 million to 1 in a million.

    I have never heard of this case before but thanks for directing me to it and I have no idea if the four arrested were TG or not. Whether or not they are violence cannot be condoned.

    Do you know what the initial confrontation was about? If indeed they are TG then I would be willing to place a small wager that it was some form of TG abuse.

    If it was TG abuse then perhaps it would not have happened had everyone involved been educated on prejudice and differences at an early age.
    Setsugetsuka likes this.
  19. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    I believe that this was in essence the approach of the teaching in Birmingham that kicked this off.
    Eszett likes this.
  20. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    I have definitely been in RE sessions in the school were the lead "teacher" was asking the children for example of evidence that god exists etc. There was no indication that Gods existance was anything other than a fact, including creationism.

    Following the session I had to make a complaint to both the "teacher" pointing out that there is a reason religion is called a faith and further to SLT.

    But as to your second point are you really trying to deny that some people feel that they were born into a body in-congruent to their gender?

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