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Are you in favour of primary LGBT lessons for young children?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by TES_Rosaline, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. TES_Rosaline

    TES_Rosaline Administrator Staff Member

    ‘There is overwhelming backing for lessons on LGBT issues in primary schools – but this support drops when it comes to lessons for the youngest pupils, according to new research shared exclusively with Tes.

    Professor Jonathan Glazzard and Samuel Stones, of the Carnegie School of Education at Leeds Beckett University, surveyed 366 teachers and parents following the controversy at Parkfield Community School in Birmingham over its equality curriculum programme, named No Outsiders.

    Some 88 per cent of those surveyed disagreed with the idea that parents should have a right to withdraw their children from lessons about LGBT people.’

    What are your thoughts about this issue? Do you think there should be no restrictions on what age children learn about relationships and LGBT identities and issues?

  2. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    What is an LGBT identity? Are the identities of lesbian people identical with those of transgender people? Are the identities of bisexual people identical with those of gay people? Of course they are not, these people are as diverse as the rest of the population and deserve no more special access to the classroom than anyone else.
  3. peter12171

    peter12171 Star commenter

    And doesn’t the label LGBT+ confuse the distinction between gender and sexuality?
  4. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    If everyone in society teaches children that everyone is valuable and has a part to play, then explicit teaching about any kind of 'equality' shouldn't be needed.
    Unfortunately this doesn't happen and so lessons in school are required.

    Most people teaching such topics to young children do so via conversation as it comes up, not as a half hour lesson once a fortnight for a half term.
  5. Kartoshka

    Kartoshka Established commenter

    I don't see any need for specific lessons about sexuality for primary school pupils. The curriculum should show examples of a variety of families - for example, through careful choice of literature read to children - to show heterosexual, homosexual and single parent families as equally 'normal'. Other than that, is there anything else primary school children need to be taught?
  6. a1976

    a1976 Established commenter

    No. Absolutely not! I think we should teach children that everyone matters, not just every child, or certain cultures, everyone.
    guinnesspuss and peter12171 like this.
  7. Happygopolitely

    Happygopolitely Established commenter

    Put another way - Are we in favour of leaving people out?
    agathamorse and Setsugetsuka like this.
  8. Setsugetsuka

    Setsugetsuka New commenter

    My understanding of the so-called LGBT lessons is that it's simply about what you said-teaching children that different sorts of families are normal. That they are as deserving of respect as anyone else. Also about the importance of relationships such as friends and family and how to stay safe in them. At the primary age level, there isn't going to be any sexuality at all. It's literally just about the acceptance of others who are different, and about being caring.
    smoothnewt, bexallya, drek and 3 others like this.
  9. circuskevin

    circuskevin Established commenter

    I always think more could be done for autistic pupils.

    I pointed this out at a couple of schools I was working at last week.

    One where a reception pupil had a 1:1 TA assigned to him. The PE chap said he had a budget to spend. I shall be letting him know what equipment to get to help this and similar pupils.

    At another school I offered to give a lesson in the autism unit after I finished my morning's work. Walking in they were all watching a video. They turned that off and I quickly engaged the pupils and staff in an interactive lesson where all learnt new skills.

  10. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    To tell children this would be to deceive them. Statistically, for example, same-sex parenting accounts for only 0.8% or all British families, far from normal in the meaningful sense.

    Which is a bare minimum.

    Yes, there is. Sex Education is neither required nor forbidden in Primary schools so some teach it even now and this number will grow as LGBT issues illegitimately gain greater traction in all KS.

    How it would be possible to teach about bisexual and homosexual people without broaching the topic of sexuality is anyone's guess, and I expect some Primary teachers will overstep the legally required policies they must develop in consultation with their pupils' parents and then publish on their school's website.

    This does not require the promotion of statistical anomalies as normal.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  11. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    What is normal anyway?

    I see nothing wrong with children being told or shown in books that some families have a mum and dad,some have two mums,two dads or just a mum or just a dad.In some case,mum used to be dad or dad used to be mum.Some children might even live with grandparents or foster parents. Such is life in the 21s century.
  12. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Not 0.8% of all families. Here is its definition:


    There is nothing wrong in telling pupils this but to teach them regularly as part of a programme that 0.8% is the same as normal is to deceive them. It is as though they were being taught that 2 + 2 = 5.
    corgie11 likes this.
  13. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    My issue is that what I am expect to teach is lies. A man cannot become a woman. A man can get the legal status of a woman, yes. Man can undertake treatment to become more like a woman in some aspects, yes. A man can be a transwoman, yes. But a man cannot become a woman. That is a lie
    corgie11, englbee, BetterNow and 4 others like this.
  14. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    When you can be threatened and intimidated for not agreeing to teach lies, be arrested, be banned, lose your job for not agreeing to teach a lie, we are on a par with the Nazi race scientists.
  15. Setsugetsuka

    Setsugetsuka New commenter

    Well, perhaps normal isn't quite the right word. But at the moment, the fact that LGBT families aren't statistically normal is enough of an excuse for some people to conflate that with the assumption that they aren't 'normal' in the sense of them not being deserving of basic human decency/kindness/respect, possibly even in some cases that they aren't human.

    The normal that needs to be taught to children is that these sorts of families are still families, still human beings. Doesn't matter that there aren't that many of them in the grand scheme of things. It's about the respect and tolerance.
    bexallya, drek, ridleyrumpus and 3 others like this.
  16. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Why do you persist in using 'normal' incorrectly. Normality is not a synonym for dignity, and pupils should not be taught as though it is. Of course all people are to be regarded with a basic level of dignity but not all adult relationships are normal and we should not lie to pupils about this.

    School has never been about emotionally validating the lifestyle choices of adults, and it should not be such now else there will be no end to the bizarre & problematic relationships which teachers are expected to represent in and legitimise via the curriculum:

  17. abuzayd1987

    abuzayd1987 New commenter

    I do wonder whether such adjectives would be condoned when describing ️‍ lgbtq+ relationships. I find it bemusing and hypocritical the way current society proclaims and ferociously pushes values of inclusivity and equality but prejudices against non-monogamous relationships are not only accepted but continue to be enshrined in law despite all the legislative efforts being made for lgbtq+ groups....seems a case of: all relationships are equal, of value and to be respected....as long as they are only between two people.
  18. vannie

    vannie Star commenter

    I will teach that everyone is deserving of respect, I will teach that there are many different kinds of families but I will not tell children that biological men can become women.
    corgie11, englbee, BetterNow and 5 others like this.
  19. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter


    Do I have to point out on today if all days that

    t's not unusual to be loved by anyone
    It's not unusual to have fun with anyone
    Setsugetsuka and agathamorse like this.
  20. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    Where is the evidence that anyone has ever been asked to do so?

    (I do note, with interest, that I have seen the a man cannot become a woman trope many many times. But I am not aware of ever seeing the a woman cannot become a man version being spouted. I wonder why the bias.)
    Setsugetsuka likes this.

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