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Are we losing too many good teachers because of a data driven education system?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by TES_Rosaline, Oct 27, 2015.

  1. TES_Rosaline

    TES_Rosaline Administrator Staff Member

    Mary Bousted, the general secretary of the ATL education union, highlights the issue of teachers’ working lives being affected by what seems like endless pupil progression targets and the impact attainment has on their careers.


    Should we revise the way we track pupils and set targets, and will this really help to stem the tide of people leaving the profession?
  2. irs1054

    irs1054 Star commenter

    The entire system is predicated on an entirely false premise.

    It's broken completely.
  3. yfel_endwerce

    yfel_endwerce Established commenter

    Do bears poo in the woods?
    lanokia likes this.
  4. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Yes, yes we are.

    Data is an entirely false flag way of running education. It tells you NOTHING about anything.

    But it's an easy cloak for weak SLT to wrap themselves in to be perceived as taking action... because a spreadsheet told them so.
  5. snowyhead

    snowyhead Lead commenter

    In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
  6. drek

    drek Star commenter

    The system runs contrary to its own announcements.
    Outstanding teachers should be doing more 'teaching' less admin work. The opposite happens because nqts cannot pass if they dont get an outstanding every Observation or sonething equally insane!
    A big giant leap is then made , that if they can role play outstanding lessons when observed for a year or two, this translates to leadership, with less teaching.
    It does not make sense.
    If it is the 'teacher' that is supposed to drive up standards in the classroom, should the outstanding ones not be spending more and more time doing that instead of peddling every new strategy thought of by the money people?
    NQT1986 likes this.
  7. drek

    drek Star commenter

    Peddling strategies means data sheets colourful graphs and a lotta lotta blagging. A different job from teaching altogether!
  8. drek

    drek Star commenter

    Peddling strategies means data sheets colourful graphs and a lotta lotta blagging. A different job from teaching altogether!
  9. SanaRashid70

    SanaRashid70 New commenter

    Yes I agree. A new approach is required. This school system currently is taking out creativity and teachers are not getting enough time to focus on their teaching and delivering good, quality lessons. It is all focused on recording data and it is incredibly time consuming. How do children benefit from all that paperwork when the lessons become sub-standard? Well they don't .You have leadership who want written records to look impressive yet the basic foundations within that school, the teachers, are being pulled towards that fatal iceberg (increased stress). What can teachers do but leave a profession that constantly pushes them to do unnecessary paperwork resulting in repetitive, monotonous routine?
    cassandramark2 and lanokia like this.
  10. emerald52

    emerald52 Star commenter

    Exactly. I'm part time so at the chalkface. Asked what is the secret of my excellent results I find my self reduced to mumbling inanities. Truth is I'm a good teacher who sets no store by all the nonsense such as thinking hats. I just get on with teaching and making them work hard. Wouldn't go down well with my SLT though.
  11. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter



    Best wishes

    drek and monicabilongame like this.
  12. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    If you are for individual teacher creativity and against classroom routine then why do you share your teaching materials on TES?
  13. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    Colouring in and spouting BS only they believe just about sums up the "abilities" of some hardly-teaching "teachers".
    drek and snowyhead like this.
  14. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Thing is... so much money could be saved just by scrapping data. It serves ZERO educational purpose to pupils. It's hardly even uniform across the nation, what with levels being scrapped.
    emerald52, drek and monicabilongame like this.
  15. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    To me teaching in the UK is doomed until we get rid of a self serving, highly irrelevant (and often non- teaching) middle management and just have a headteacher in charge of ...wait for it.....teachers. Then simply let them get on with it and stop the one size fits all nonsense, objective this, graph that....just judge them by their results. Exactly how we STILL judge kids when they apply for top jobs and universities. No need for endless assessment and data, just teach, let kids sit the exams they must anyhow....and watch what happens when teachers are set free, full of the energy and enthusiasm that is presently drained out of them by endless, pointless data collection.
  16. Compassman

    Compassman Star commenter

    The thing that you cannot get through is that most of the data used is floored. The targets are wrong, and the statistics are wrong.

    Teachers spend so much time entering data onto spreadsheets/SIMs etc when they could be planning lessons and teaching.
    drek likes this.
  17. Sisyphus_rolls_again

    Sisyphus_rolls_again Established commenter

    Data is not a bad thing.
    It is formative, it is diagnostic......when used by the teacher in a way that supports their teaching and informs their planning. Knowing which part of a topic a pupil, or a group of pupils, has struggled with is massively helpful to me.

    SLT's (and DfE/OFSTED) use of data is dire though, the very idea of an 'expectation' that all pupils must reach is ridiculous. Then to 'measure' teacher performance by assuming that their input is the only driver to affect whether pupils reach the expectation or not is both mathematically and logically ridiculous.
    Even GCSE science pupils know that if you don't control other variables, the conclusion that you draw will be invalid. But apparently SLT & above don't even have that level of skill.

    I think my point is that we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater...data isn't bad, SLT's use of data is bad.

    TheoGriff's image is a meme derived on a quote from Edwards Deming.
    It would be worth a few minutes of anyone's time to read about the 14 key principles and 7 deadly diseases of management that he identified.

    And then to look at the management of their school..or the education system as a whole.
    drek and lanokia like this.
  18. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    What you seem to be describing here is what I would call 'marks'. In other words, ah pupil A you got 40%, bit of a drop from that 70% you use to be on, now how do you explain that? Hmmm, struggled to engage with the topic did you... well lets buck our ideas up next time shall we?

    When I roundly condemn data it is the top down, artificially derived, nonsensical, divorced from reality tosh which has been allowed to infect education like a cancer, a cancer that has been wholeheartedly embraced by mathematically illiterate fools who use data like ladder rungs to enable their vertigo inducing advance through the ranks.

    Which I know you addressed in your second paragraph ... but I got all florid.
  19. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Oh @Sisyphus_rolls_again thank you for that link to Mr Deming.

    His seven disease are indeed so familiar to me.5 of them echo through my mind finding familiar structures from my recent experiences!
  20. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Ah number 7 in lesser category of obstacles!

    Placing blame on workforces who are only responsible for 15% of mistakes where the system designed by management is responsible for 85% of the unintended consequences

    Yup, ring so true!
    drek likes this.

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