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Are teachers babysitters?

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by Freddie92, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. Freddie92

    Freddie92 Occasional commenter

    A colleague pointed this out to me today when I told him of the proposal by some Think Tank about taking a week off our much needed holidays to be replaced by a week of INSET.

    I don't know if any of us could survive that!

    On a serious point, why is it that other professions are treated with more respect but we seem to be getting kicked all the time? The papers always pick on our profession as we seem easy targets.

    Teachers in Scotland are ALL graduates so we should be paid and treated accordingly or else there will be a brain drain which we hear when we want to tackle the banks, or doctors or whoever. Teaching has to be an attractive career or else there will be no-one coming in. The holidays are a perk of the job, but as we all know we really need them. I will also wager that the vast majority of teachers are cream crackered on a Friday night and go to their bed reasonably early and sleep in late on a Saturday. Because they are spent.

    On another note I am also sick and fed up of having to do paperwork and admin jobs which classroom assistants and office staff should be doing. I don't know about you but in our school you'd think the office workers were the ones with the degrees and the office manager acts like she runs the school. I do blame our headteacher for that as he should put her in her place. I know a few old heads who would not put up with her petty attitude and the downright lack of manners that comes over from the office staff en masse. There is a cultural issue I believe. They need to go on a customer care/people skills course.
     
  2. You forgot to sign off
    ... by freddie aged 6 and a half
     
  3. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    The holidays. That's it. They can't get over the holidays.
     
  4. I get annoyed by people saying TEACHERS have these great long holidays, when in fact it's the CHILDREN for whom the long holidays exist!
    Anyone who has been a teacher knows that the kids are exhausted by the end of term, not just the teachers. Any change to the school year would need to take that into account. Teachers don't have any say in which holidays they take when: the way some pundits in the media talk, you would think teachers designed the school year themselves for maximum laziness.
    A lot of people who have never been a teacher also can't imagine what's so hard about playing and colouring in with a bunch of kids all day.
    On the other hand, I don't agree with teachers who get annoyed when parents complain about the holidays and Inservice days costing them a lot in childcare, saying that school is not a babysitting service. Parents design their working lives around the school day, week and year, and it is a bloody nuisance when there are four days' holiday in the middle of February, and the kids are only in school for 6 days in April.
    We need some mutual understanding and respect. Easy as that! [​IMG]
     
  5. You chose to have children. Organising childcare should have been part of that decision.
     
  6. But does the school year have to be so chaotic? I don't think teachers will get certain parents on board unless there's some meeting each other halfway.
    BTW - I'm not putting forward my views here, rather those I have heard from other parents. I am a parent and a teacher, and I understand both points of view. I planned very well for childcare, and don't have any problems with school holidays or Inservice days. I'm not working as a teacher at the moment, and I have a PT office job specifically so that I can be flexible and work around school holidays. My daughter also has a full-time After School Care place, and attends the holiday club there.
    But I hear a lot from other parents that they find it hard to plan because of the irregularity of the school year. Surely there's a discussion to be had about the structure of the school year, without anyone feeling attacked? I get annoyed when parents who aren't teachers moan about how many holidays "teachers" get, but "we're not a babysitting service" is not a useful response.
    Isn't it time for a discussion about finding a compromise between what is best for the children, and what would help working parents? Could this be done without teachers feeling they're under attack?
     
  7. jonowen

    jonowen Occasional commenter

    I think most of us are in the same boat Fred! When people moan about long holidays (my brother's favourite pick-on-big-sis grunt, so this is directed at him) I just say that it's common knowledge about teachers' hols (and pay) so if it's such a big deal why not be a teacher? Thing is they can't because they havn't the qualifications in the first place. My sister (she hates me too!) thought she would like to change from Support Worker to teacher but didn't have any highers (my mother's fault apparently, as she wasn't pushed as hard at school as I was??!! I think that translates as "lazy") so she looked into Higher English. The PT English at her school gave her a reading list, but she changed her mind after 5 mins. ("too many books"!) She remains a Support Worker, but cannot tell me what she does as it's confidential!!
    Yes Fred, we do babysit sometimes but the success with kids surprising us with unexpected good results or achieving something they thought the would never do outweighs the bad bits. I must be having a good day to feel so positive! Oh but it's Friday tomorrow, then no more school till Wed - what an easy life I have!!!
    [​IMG]
     
  8. What's chaotic about it? Holidays are published at least a year in advance and follow a very traditional pattern so it's not as if it's hard to plan for them or they suddenly pop up unexpectedly!
    It's true though.
    More flexible childcare might help working parents. That's one to discuss with childcare providers.
     
  9. Yes - albeit glorified babysitters. Although come to think of it when I was a babysitter I only had to deal with 2 little angels, got to play games for the sake of playing rather than trying to disguise it as a valid approach to learning and had free run of the fridge...
     
  10. I used to babysit one Precious First Born 4-year-old whose parents let him eat anything he wanted, and drink red cola. He used to run riot from 6pm when his parents went out, until 5 minutes before they arrived back (around midnight), at which point he would fall into an angelic-faced slumber on the sofa.[​IMG]
    I ended up with all of his toys (especially the large plastic sword with which he used to whack me) up on top of a high cupboard in the kitchen.
    THAT'S babysitting!
     
  11. Funny, sounds a lot like 'teaching' my S4...
     
  12. jonowen

    jonowen Occasional commenter

    And my S4s too!
     
  13. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    My S4s are OK. Sounds very like my S1, S2, S3, S5/6 though!
     
  14. I would quite like to be paid as a babysitter rather than as a teacher. Let me see ... 30 pupils in my class, 25 hours per week - that would be 750 hours of babysitting per week at ... oh, let's say £2.50 an hour (how cheap am I?) that makes £1875 a week just for babysittting!!! Wow! £7,500 a month! £90,000 a year!! And I don't haver any prep, marking, CPD, monitoring, mentoring ...need I go on?
     
  15. Flyonthewall75

    Flyonthewall75 New commenter

    <font size="3">Here is an update on an old anecdote:</font><font size="3">A parent, who is also a member of the Centre for Scottish Public Policy, believes parents get a really raw deal in the Scottish Education System because it&rsquo;s run essentially for teachers.</font><font size="3">As childcare is important to parents, he proposes that teachers should be paid the same rate as childminders. So let&rsquo;s work out some of the costs, assuming a childminding rate of about &pound;5.00 per hour.</font><font size="3">&pound;5.00 X 4.5 hours = &pound;22.50 per day for each pupil.</font><font size="3">That&rsquo;s &pound;22.50 X 25 = &pound;562.50 per day for a class of 25 pupils.</font><font size="3">&pound;562.50 X 190 = &pound;106,875 a year.</font><font size="3">However, Mr &lsquo;Thicktank&rsquo; is also not happy about the length of the pupil week, the size of some classes, inservice training arrangements and the holiday entitlement teachers enjoy.</font><font size="3">He wants teachers to supervise pupils for the full 35 hour week, have classes of at least 30 to save public money and undertake inservice training during at least one week of their holidays, at a time convenient for parents. So that&rsquo;s:</font><font size="3">&pound;5.00 X 7 hours = &pound;35 per day for each pupil X 30 pupils X 195 days = &pound;204,750 a year.</font><font size="3">Mr &lsquo;Thicktank&rsquo; is off to buy a new calculator as the one that is producing these ridiculous figures is obviously on the blink.</font><font size="3">Come to think of it, if childminders can charge extra for food and drink, could teachers not charge a bit more for education on top of childcare?</font><font size="3">P.S. Did anyone notice the children in the Reporting Scotland news item using - shock, horror - workbooks? Where are HMIe and the CfE police?</font>
     
  16. Flyonthewall75

    Flyonthewall75 New commenter

    Here is an update on an old anecdote:
    A parent, who is also a member of the Centre for Scottish Public Policy, believes parents get a really raw deal in the Scottish Education System because it's run essentially for teachers.
    As childcare is important to parents, he proposes that teachers should be paid the same rate as childminders. So let's work out some of the costs, assuming a childminding rate of about &pound;5.00 per hour.
    &pound;5.00 X 4.5 hours = &pound;22.50 per day for each pupil.
    That's &pound;22.50 X 25 = &pound;562.50 per day for a class of 25 pupils.
    &pound;562.50 X 190 = &pound;106,875 a year.
    However, Mr 'Thicktank' is also not happy about the length of the pupil week, the size of some classes, inservice training arrangements and the holiday entitlement teachers enjoy.
    He wants teachers to supervise pupils for the full 35 hour week, have classes of at least 30 to save public money and undertake inservice training during at least one week of their holidays, at a time convenient for parents. So that's:
    &pound;5.00 X 7 hours = &pound;35 per day for each pupil X 30 pupils x 195 days = &pound;204,750 a year.
    Mr 'Thicktank' is off to buy a new calculator because the one that is producing these ridiculous figures is obviously on the blink.
    Come to think of it, if childminders can charge extra for food and drink, could teachers not charge a bit more for education on top of childcare?
    P.S. Did anyone notice the children in the Reporting Scotland news item using - shock, horror - workbooks? Where are HMIe and the CfE police?
     
  17. The Bad Seat

    My grandson is getting very familiar with the bad seat. He's into absolutely everything and loves hiding anything he can get his hands on. I am thinking of getting the bad seat electrified as he clearly isn't getting the message.

    Will the school crumble ...?

    There was a good point made about office staff thinking the school would crumble without them. This is true of some Teaching Assistant's too. Probably get shot for saying it but I have met many who think the fabric of the school would fall apart if they had a day off.

    And I really don't get this thing they seem to have with wearing jeans and looking casual. As far as I am concerned they are a member of staff like any other and should be dressed accordingly.

    The most important person in the school is the Janitor and I don't care what anyone says. Without a Janitor and without cleaning staff the school cannot function. I've learnt the hard way with my hand down a few u-bends, covered in sick, cleaning up sick, picking up litter, and having to clean up my own biscuit crumbs after myself.

    With regards to Reporting Scotland:

    They were using workbooks as the teacher was probably using the good old "chalk and talk" method.

    Take every smart board and get a refund. They never do what they are supposed to and aren't used enough to justify the cost of getting them put in in the first place.

    All your Richard Branson's, Duncan Bannatyne's and Alan Sugar's of the world got where they are today as a product of chalk and talk and not the product of some electronic board that you can touch with a special pen and it draws what you want it to.

    So does a burnt match.
     
  18. jonowen

    jonowen Occasional commenter

    Hi Pots! Just noticed your posting, it's lovely to have you back!!

    So, so true!
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Not many primary schools round where I am have a janny more than a couple of half days per week. All those lovely jobs that you mentioned have to be done by the people at hand - tbh as often as not it's the heidie !!
     
  20. Maybe the parents (as I did when mine were little) need to design their working lives around the fact they have children - not try to design their children around their working lives which seems to be the practice which is most prevalent.
    We have 5 year olds who go to breakfast club at 7.30 then do a full day at school, are picked up by the after school club and then spend 3.15- 6.30 or 6.45 in the after school club care.
    There's a European directive on adult working hours - who's looking out for these kids?
    We are supposed to be educators - we are not babysitters but that is how we are perceived by the vast majority of working parents.
    Many of ours are driving about in huge gas guzzling 4x4 cars and take their kids out of schoool for foreign holidays during term time but close the school for one day because of atrocious weather conditions and they're the first to bleat or if wee Jimmy is full of the cold and thoroughly miserable - send him in anyway. Nursery? - get them in as soon as they can totter - why have them in the first place?
    It's a matter of priorities - they want to manintain a lifestyle with no sacrifices whatsoever and school is a convenient way to facilitate this.
    Bothered about childcare during school holidays - easy - train as a teacher - 9-3.15 and all those holidays - see how long they last.
    What I want to know is if my 'outrageously long holidays' are to be reduced do I get to join the rest of the workforce and take them at a time of my choosing so that I can jet off for two weeks in the sun at a fraction of the cost?

     

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