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Are teachers about to become the new frontline?

Discussion in 'News' started by SteveWoodhouse, Apr 4, 2020.

  1. border_walker

    border_walker Lead commenter

    But there is no evidence that anyone asymptomatic can spread the virus.
     
  2. install

    install Star commenter

    There is evidence that we can all spread the virus. It spreads easily from person to person and travels fast. Hence the lockdown and the efforts to stop transmission of the virus. No one is really sure of the incubation time either.

    Alarm bells have been ringing in Italy recently for example. People with no symptoms have been tested positive and hence are able to spread it eg coughing, sneezing.
     
    agathamorse, Catgirl1964 and Sally006 like this.
  3. border_walker

    border_walker Lead commenter

    Please quote it. as I understand it there is none for asymptomatic individuals, so if you have access to evidence I would love to read it.
     
  4. border_walker

    border_walker Lead commenter

    If coughing then not asymptomatic. Coughing is one of the symptoms.
     
  5. ukpaul

    ukpaul Occasional commenter

    It’s a virus, it doesn’t care if you have symptoms or not, you just become a host that spreads the virus without knowing about it.

    Seriously, just ten seconds googling would have taught you that, so why make such clearly false claims? It is so, so dangerous to even suggest that.
     
    agathamorse, Sally006 and install like this.
  6. SteveWoodhouse

    SteveWoodhouse Occasional commenter


    It’s exactly what Denmark have done today.

    Though frankly, whilst they’re supposed to be maintaining 2m, details are sketchy on how they’re doing this.
     
  7. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    As we know, governments can and do send young kids to their deaths in wars or to defend their system (the police). They know they will be doing so, too.

    The government is wrestling to find the day it can accept certain numbers of dead while getting us all back to work and giving it back the money we took + more in extra taxes and such.

    If you listen to Boris and all, they are very careful not to deny the above - they keep saying this is not about eradicating the virus but making sure the NHS can cope.

    And to be fair, other reasons do include public mental health. Many families live in tiny apartments with no gardens and we all have a breaking point.
     
  8. SteveWoodhouse

    SteveWoodhouse Occasional commenter

    Yes, there’s no evidence you can’t pass it if asymptomatic, and we should proceed with caution.

    However, I suppose if you’re asymptomatic, by definition you’re not coughing and sneezing. Well, not as much.

    Do it’s almost certainly true to say you won’t be infecting others as much, unless in very close contact.
     

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  9. ukpaul

    ukpaul Occasional commenter

    Breathing and talking look likely ways that the virus uses to spread (there was the case of the choir where it spread uncontrollably remember, music teachers take note!).

    "Large droplets are still a means of infection, but researchers now say that tiny airborne particles may also carry infectious virus. “Currently available research supports the possibility that SARS-CoV-2 could be spread via bioaerosols generated directly by patients’ exhalation,” researchers from the U.S. National Academies of Science, Engineering and Medicine wrote in an April 1 report to the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy.

    If the coronavirus is airborne, that could help explain why it is so contagious, and can spread before people have symptoms."

    https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-breathing-talking-enough-spread-airborne
     
    Sally006 and install like this.
  10. install

    install Star commenter

    I agree. It’s the spread of the virus that needs to be stopped.

    The Govt are also trying to not overwhelm the NHS. Schools opening too soon at full capacity all over the country would at this point in time overwhelm hospitals and cause further spread and more deaths.

    It will need to be an approach that continues to stop transmission. Schools imho will continue to offer a supportive role for the children of front line workers - with teachers continuing on a rota and ‘childminding’ basis. The number in schools may increase gradually to see how this approach works.

    Teachers will still offer home distant learning too for quite some time imho. Normality may not return until September - but bigger steps towards that I think will be made in June. And once more we are clear about PPE eg masks for adults and children, and testing.
     
  11. bigwig1

    bigwig1 New commenter

    Over the years I have the impression that many were concentrating on their career and putting having children on hold.After teaching for twenty five years. I can confidently say that many students have parents aged in there 40's and 50's. Without the proper controls being put in place students would carry the infection home.

    Schools do not have the resources to change and handle the situation we now find ourselves in. A management that are purely results focused would not put staff welfare first. Classrooms that in some schools can barely hold 32 pupils without students sitting shoulder to shoulder. Cleaners who do not have time or the equipment to clean classrooms to the required standard. The older dinner staff and helpers who the school rely on to a very high degree who would of course be adversely affected by any spread of infection. Reduced staff numbers due to infection or restructuring within the school that has every one without time to spare.

    I unfortunately to not see any easy solution unless schools receive direct advice from the government and increased funding.
     
    agathamorse and install like this.
  12. SteveWoodhouse

    SteveWoodhouse Occasional commenter

    You’re referring to me, and you’re wrong again.

    I never said anyone should be going back now.
     
  13. bella2891

    bella2891 New commenter

    Would be an idea for teachers to be tested for the virus so we know which have had it already.

    I’m very anxious about returning back to work.
     
    Sally006, SteveWoodhouse and install like this.
  14. install

    install Star commenter

    It is an idea @bella and I believe the Govt has set itself some ambitious targets as it is. And this is where lots of criticism has come in. The ‘test, test, test’ approach hasn’t really happened fast enough for front line workers in the UK. That is the case I suspect too for Carers in Care Homes.

    I think any immediate return will continue to be on a rota basis and continue to be in a ‘child minding’ role for the children of those going to work. Imho it will be a gradual return to work for key businesses whilst teachers support as best as they can.

    Teaching I think will continue in a distant home learning capacity. And I strongly suspect that there will be a push for 2021 exams to not happen and for Teacher Assessments to be used again.

    I still think September for schools opening at full capacity looks possible - unless we are going to pre-empt a second spike of the virus when cooler weather arrives. In terms of PPE, it’s a tricky one in schools too. Unless attendance numbers are kept low for quite some time and until the spread of the virus stops.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2020
  15. SteveWoodhouse

    SteveWoodhouse Occasional commenter

    As soon as tests become available, and providing there isn’t any new evidence about re-infection, I’d be straight back to work if I knew I was ‘clear’.

    Until then, I’d share your anxiety.
     
  16. ukpaul

    ukpaul Occasional commenter

    By clear you mean that you’ve already had the virus I presume? That would mean you were not going to catch it again (although, again, this is still not definite).

    For anyone who tests negative, it means that they are not safe to return, which is why all teachers and pupils will need to wear full PPE to compensate for that. The risk is too great.

    That risk is made doubly so because of the recent finding that young people do not necessarily have antibodies if they have had the virus. Before I had thought that testing, tracking and tracing was going to be enough. Now, that finding suggests that, even with that, you may well be in a classroom with an asymptomatic spreader
     
    agathamorse and install like this.
  17. SBolibar77

    SBolibar77 New commenter

  18. bella2891

    bella2891 New commenter

    Just read on the BBC website:


    Coronavirus testing will be rolled out to people working in public services such as police, fire and prison staff, Health Secretary Matt Hancock has said.

    Capacity was rising "sharply" but not as many NHS staff had come forward for tests as had been expected, he said.

    Hopefully that will include school staff before they expect us to return...
     
    agathamorse and Catgirl1964 like this.
  19. banjouk

    banjouk Occasional commenter

    It will be interesting to see what the Ed Secretary says during the Sunday evening briefing.
     
  20. install

    install Star commenter

    Maybe the NHS staff are too busy saving lives . Sadly, some still with not enough PPE:


    ‘NHS bosses have asked doctors and nurses to work without protective full-length gowns when treating Covid-19 patients, as hospitals came within hours of running out of supplies.

    The guidance is a reversal of Public Health England (PHE) guidelinesstipulating that full-length waterproof surgical gowns, designed to stop coronavirus droplets getting into someone’s mouth or nose, should be worn for all high-risk hospital procedures.’
     

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