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Are accredited schools better?

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by chiefoyibo, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. Oh ye of little faith......though I agree that where people pay peanuts monos will do......
    I think it would be interesting to see how many and which 'British' schools in Spain remained open for business if, in order to pay for an accredition and other signs of quality like a meaningful middle management structure, IT in every classroom, theatres, full-size gyms, and adjacent playing fields, the fees went up and became more readily comparable with the fees paid in the UK for British independent education........after all, NABSS schools are supposedly committed to employing British trained teachers, and enticing people over by telling them how much the sun shines is kind of embarrassing.....
  2. SMT dude

    SMT dude New commenter

    Aunque el mono se vista de seda, mono se queda.
    ('dress a monkey how you will, he remains a monkey still')
    There are already three Spanish Breeteesh schools accredited by COBIS, having hosted successful ISI inspections.
    Perhaps two or three more have the wherewithal to satisfy ISI, or one of the five new-boy inspectorates, or CIS, who also count on three accredited schools in Spain, the same number that they have in Zambia.
    Many of the rest of the Spanish schools are nowhere near 'accreditable', as flippant suggests above.
    So if NOBBS want to invent an in-house quality control system that also gives them a chance of retaining all their members, Doctor Ratón and his team will be squeezing their monkey into a pink silk frock (or a red-yellow-red one) and hoping for the best.
  3. Hmmm....but two of them are the babies of Dr Fry as is COBIS.......I suspect he is unlikely to have his own accreditation process 'fail' his own businesses.....whereas he might well enjoy the opportunity to 'fail', or at least criticise and undermine, some of his competitors.....especially a certain College in La Moraleja.....
    In the meantime, NABSS is cheap 'n cheerful enough......reflecting the core of its membership perhaps?
  4. SMT dude

    SMT dude New commenter

    A cheap shot and also misinformed.
    The inspections are carried out by ISI. It is only after a successful inspection that COBIS will lend its own accreditation to a school.
    This decision, COBIS being nobody's 'baby', is recommended to the executive by a sub-committee on which the person you name does not sit. (I hope your naming game does not bring down this informative thread, by the way).
    No such opportunity exists, and no such malice. Membership of COBIS (as also ECIS, CIS, IB and others) involves a commitment to work together with schools which in a vulgar sense (yours) might be regarded as 'competitors'. Crisis or no crisis, there are still plenty of kids to go round.
    The craven cynicism and professional malpractice which you impute, is doubtless a case of 'tarring with your own brush'.
    Perhaps I've been nearly as silly and nasty about NABSS, so I will just say that their process is clearly less rigorous than ISI or CIS and leave it at that.
  5. Who founded it?
    Sorry, but that is not what I have heard.......from two of the main players.....not that I am particularly interested in convincing anyone over the internet......
    You go too far dude.....I apologise if I have insulted anything or anyone you hold dear.....
    Sometimes it can be unknowingly done......

  6. SMT dude

    SMT dude New commenter

    The late Sir Richard Pantlin, when he was chair of the board at a school in bonny Brussels.
    I teach my year twelves never to begin a refutation with that condescending-bullying word.
    Name them, now. You've shown us that you're bold enough to name and shame.
    and why not? This is a discussion forum among other things, and we are probably separated by too many miles to attempt a tearful reconciliation over a dozen vodkatinis.
    Always want to, sometimes don't pull it off..
    No need. Let heated debate continue, my withers are unwrung.
    I hold dear my family, school, kultcher and Bristol City FC. A very high-maintenance portfolio which leaves no room for COBIS or any other acronym or anyone who sails in one.
    Also hold dear the notion that when truth meets conspiracy theory, the former should prevail if possible.
    And if I've offended or disgusted you it was done unknowingly. I'm sure we can discuss this sensibly and I might even end up holding you dear.
    Or... holding you, dear.
  7. Wow....you are way too prickly for my taste dude.....
    Returning to this though:
    The 'Breeteesh' slight is spot on.....certainly for the main Royal school in Madrid.......the school may have passed an ISI inspection and a COBIS accreditation, but that only leads me to believe that installations, interestingly modified versions of whatever constitutes a British curriculum (e.g. apparently it is not necessary to finish your final two years studying in English), and UK trained teachers and managers matter more within their criteria for accreditation than children who learn to speak and write in English at a native speaker's level.......
    By that standard there are British schools in Barcelona, Valencia (not the printing press school), Malaga, Marbella and Mallorca.....which is not to mention at least two others in Madrid......who would have nothing to fear..........except the parting with x thousands of euros for the pleasure......from a spot of ISI/COBIS scrutiny......
    .....which is really the only opinion I wished to share......
    When a school such as the Royal school of Madrid promotes itself as the British school of Madrid it goes beyond being 'cheeky' with its marketing......when it promotes itself as 'one of the best British schools in the world' it becomes quite laughable..........it struggles to maintain itself as one of the best British schools in Madrid.....let alone Spain and beyond......
    NABSS might well end up 'giving away' whatever accrediting cert it conjures up.....but any group that happily accredits the Royal group of Madrid has not set the liston so very high......
  8. SMT dude

    SMT dude New commenter

    Thanks, but in real life I am about as prickly as a school-dinner blancmange, and nearly as pink.
    Since your 'taste' runs to naming people and schools, I am still waiting to do homage to the size of your own *****(les) when you let us know who your misinformed 'inner-circle' experts are.
    I'm much too cansado to go a-googling at this hour, but any school inspected by ISI has to publish the full report on its web site, so go read, and then tell us cynically that it was an in-house job.
  9. SMT dude

    SMT dude New commenter

    Still want to know who the 'main players' are.
  10. SMT dude

    SMT dude New commenter

    Here's some news from the web site of the College:
    ***** College Students accepted in top UK and us (sic) universities.
    Is this merely another example of banal illiteracy or is it a calculated, if inane, Iberian EuroTrash insult to the US ? (of A)
    there follows:
    ***** College Year 13 students have received several offers to join top international universities such as Oxford, Yale, Imperial, Durham, York, Leeds Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, Surrey, Leicester, Glasgow, Lancaster and Bath.
    (Glad to see my own Alma Mater, and the Cap'n's, included in the list, by Jove.)
    Tacky, silly, nasty and tacky again. And poorly written. A how-not-to-do-it of self-promotion. Vanity of vanities, dios mio.
    BUT almost certainly factually correct. How do these children secure such offers if they can't manage fluent English, señor flippant?
    And please, we've waited long enough, give us the names of your highly-placed informants with the same devil-may-care courage that enabled you to name your bugbear.
    Truly hope this is not a prickly post.

  11. SMT dude, I'm presuming from your
    user-name that you most likely started teaching in the 60's therefore
    I'm surprised at your desperate defence of inspection authorities I
    would have thought you to be more of the Montessori breed of teacher.
    I cannot match you for experience in years but I have previously
    worked at the royal school and therefore have seen at first hand the
    knackered horse glue that holds it together. The propaganda is all
    correct in regards to student performance, but that is all it is,
    students performance. The staff as in probably every school in the
    world work very hard and are extremely competent bar none. The school
    was the poorest resourced school I have ever worked in and the
    building a shambles, not enough desks in some classes. The owner
    cares only about image and money, COBIS may as well be an evil
    organisation for all I care as a true inspectorate would have
    condemned the practices of this school long ago. As for poor old
    senior management, I don't blame them, they have to tow the line,
    they have to get paid and they also have to look out for there
    families but they must hate their jobs and rue the day they worked
    for such and educationally cynical owner. SMT dude no doubt you have
    been backed into too many corners by similar owners and feel
    compelled to defend yourself and the organisation that you work for
    as well as defunct inspection authorities, but this is not an attack
    on you. Individuals get fed up on these forums being told the same
    things over and over again that go against their working environments. An
    OFSTED would scare me but a COBIS inspection, considering my former
    employer is also the chairmen of that noble institution, would not.

  12. Mainwaring

    Mainwaring Lead commenter

    Two of mine, in fact. I'm obviously becoming more marketable. I must apply to She Who Must be Obeyed for a raise in pocket money.
  13. SMT dude

    SMT dude New commenter

    Cheapfry, thank you for your reply. I'm sorry that 'flippant' has launched his cheap dart and skulked away.
    What follows is intended civilly.
    Flattering... but September 1978 was the first month I received a pay slip for boring the life out of children. Just too early to be called a Thatcher Thug, but way too late to qualify as a Montessori Monkey.
    I've tried hard to be reasonable and factual rather than desperate. I'm desperate for a drink from time to time, but school stuff never grabs me that way.
    This will sound pedantic, I know, but 'authorities' may be appropriate when you are talking of the government walking into a school OFSTED style, but less so when the body has been voluntarily invited in, as is the case when ISI or CIS are asked to do their gig by international schools .
    A bit harsh. I don't think they are lying, so why not information or even, bless us, facts?
    Absolutely - all power to them, and this is recognised in the ISI report which is a public document.
    Lucky you. An inspectorate/ accreditation team cannot make comparisons with other more privileged schools or countries, but must report on the facts as they find them - not too unfavourably, in this case.
    Oh, COBIS is evil, no doubt about it, the drinking of freshly slaughtered babies' blood at their committee meetings is only the tip of the iceberg. As a matter of fact, however, it is not an inspectorate, it ratifies decisions taken by ISI and presumably in future will do the same for the other authorised bodies.
    Decent of you, if a shade patronising. You'll make a good judicious inspector yourself, one day, laddie/lassie.
    I've been backed into corners by all sorts: my Latin teacher, some drunk Bristol Rovers fans, one or two predatory homosexuals, three or four aggrieved ex-girlfriends, a head of department when I was late with reports... even today I produced lunch, washing-up and easter eggs for my ladies knowing that the alternative was a slow and painful death... ... but from the only mercenary owner I ever knew, I walked away with pockets empty and virtue intact. The troops at Royal College or any other institution have the same option if things are really so bad.
    I work, for pay, for the Anglo-American International School of Ruritania. Any work I do for COBIS, or any words I spout in its defence, are produced gratis - so do me the favour in this sense of regarding me as an 'easy girl' rather than a prostitute.
    Of course not, nor do I take it that way. Your remarks are perfectly temperate and sensible, as, I hope, are mine. We have in common an interest in truth and the advancement of learning, and unless you are a M********* United supporter i wish you nothing but peace and happiness.
    They do. I get a little fed up with under-informed cynicism.
    Why? Why should any inspection or accredittation be scary to anyone conscious of doing a decent job?
    tal cual, m'hijo
    Boas ferias.
  14. Mainwaring

    Mainwaring Lead commenter

    No coconut for that one.
    Why? I'm not and I <u>did</u> start teaching in the 1960s.
    So nowt to do with the school? We've all had students and parents who thought like that.
    Many folk might think successful students + good staff = good school but maybe my formula is faulty. Perhaps I should subtract the missing desks.
    Rather a huge presumption but it's nice to see the old Clovis when-did-you-stop-beating-your-wife technique trotted out again.

  15. Gosh, the fryingpan has really got defensive!
  16. SMT dude

    SMT dude New commenter

    I notice that a school in Abu Dhabi has just been inspected by ISI, with spectacular results.
    One of the differences between ISI and CIS is that the former obliges you to publish the report on your web site - and they also have an open archive of their own. The CIS report (admittedly a much longer and more 'intimate' document), is made available by schools to their immediate communities but not generally hung out for the public to admire, warts and all.
    Anyway, you will look in vain for warts at this excellent school in the Middle East. I've read many ISI reports and they just don't come any better than this. Every member of their community, from chair of the board to janitor's cat, must be absolutely delighted.
    For the materially-minded, this sucess is also a major competitive advantage. One envisages few problems recruiting students and staff, for an outfit that has gained such laurels.
    It will be interesting to see how many more British-style schools in the Middle East decide to take the inspection plunge, eiher via ISI or one of the newly approved bodies. Probably quite a few, so that we will shortly be able to distinguish between Champions League schools and the also-rans.
    (Yes, I know there are one or two colleagues here who blather confidently about 'first-rate' or 'third tier' schools, but a report like the one I've just read is hard currency, not mere hearsay or opinion).
    It ain't all 'winds of change' in the Middle East, however... over at the BSME web site, the chairman's cheery message is the same one I quoted on this thread back in 2009...
  17. SMT dude

    SMT dude New commenter

    I've heard a whisper that a school in Lagos is about to get the nod.





  18. Well, if it&acute;s the one near Shoprite, they claim on their website that they have the following 'accreditations and affiliations':
    BSA, COBIS, CIS member, AISA.

  19. SMT dude

    SMT dude New commenter

    They had better establish and emphasise the difference, for being 'accredited' by COBIS or CIS, after a thoroughgoing team visit and report, is a much bigger deal than being an 'affiliate' of either organisation.
    I imagine we'll see some new accreditations ratified at the weekend during the COBIS conference, that much-awaited event which is attracting the gaze of le tout Londres now that the wedding frivolities are over.
  20. SMT dude

    SMT dude New commenter

    Oh certainly, plenty of mugs will be on display, and some bloody ugly ones among them, let me tell you.
    Including that of the present writer, who will report back, but probably not during the conference itself, for he will be too busy booze-quaffing, food-hogging, creeping, social-climbing, toadying, freebie-gathering, nose-browning, nest-feathering, palm-greasing and back-scratching (or stabbing).
    Morfando como muerto de hambre y chup&aacute;ndole las medias al mundo entero as we argies say.
    Sorry, filthy stuff. 'Networking' is the polite term.
    And shopping, claro 't&aacute;.

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