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Appraisal- pupil progress target

Discussion in 'Headteachers' started by NicoleK, Sep 14, 2015.

  1. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Star commenter

    Targets are such a stupid waste of time. Someone noticed that successful people more often than not set themselves goals. But it's the fact that they're that sort of person that makes them successful, not that they set themselves goals. Other people having arbitrary targets to aim for has little effect.

    I don't quite understand school targets anyway. If a child underperforms the response seems to be to lower the target. So any half witted child can quickly see that if they're lazy their target will be reduced and they can be lazier still.

    Radio 4's 'More or Less' should be compulsary listening for children and teachers alike. Schools play fast and lose with their often bogus statistics.
    snowyhead likes this.
  2. SianLohme

    SianLohme New commenter

    I agree with Mickey and Scintillant and have thought of doing something similar but haven't quite worked out a SMART target yet. Will persevere and let you know. Anyone else thinking along these radical lines?
  3. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    I would be interested to hear from heads who set targets based on data. There must be plenty of you out there...

    Maybe you could provide an explanation of the basis on which they are set?
  4. SchoolBoyError

    SchoolBoyError Occasional commenter

    Isn't that how all schools are ultimately judged? Like it or not, that's how schools are judged, therefore that's how teachers will be judged.
  5. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    That's no justification for it at all

    And if teachers only have a small influence on outcomes, then what's the rationale for it? How are targets decided? What is the statistical basis for predictions etc?

    An excellent piece on the teacher input / pupil output fallacy

  6. School Boy Error

    School Boy Error Occasional commenter

    I disagree. I don't believe that teachers have a small influence on outcomes. The teachers whole purpose is to design a rich, engaging, challenging curriculum based on the children in their class which means the children are keen to learn. What works for one class perhaps won't work for another but the point is, it is the teachers job to get to know their class and what interests, motivates and excites them. This is how they have an impact on learning.

    I think a teacher that plans generic lessons and has the attitude that what the children will or will not learn is not directly linked to their input will have a poor impact.

    I've never had data based targets imposed on me. I've had data based targets discussed and agreed. In my current school, we discuss each child with the class teachers at pupil progress meetings with the key question being, "Will they achieve age related expectations?" If the answer is yes, brilliant. Are they being challenged? If the answer is no, what support can WE put in place to support this child? Do they need a specific intervention (evidence based)? Would it be reasonable to expect them to achieve age related expectations with x and y support? Finally, children with significant SEN, will they make age related? You'd expect the answer to be no otherwise they wouldn't have significant SEN! So, what do we feel is an appropriate target for that child? Where would we like them to be at the end of the year? What support do we need to put in place?

    There you go, you have data based targets x% are related, x% working towards age related.
  7. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    You have rather misinterpreted my point. Nowhere did I say teachers should not do what you have said. Good teachers do all that as a matter of course. I - and many others - are now questioning the Teacher Input = Pupil Output fallacy as described by Jack Marwood on his weebly. Jack provides several examples on the webpage

    I am also questioning the setting of data based target for teachers' Performance-related Pay and appraisals etc. No point me explaining it when it's been done here:


    While that's well-intentioned and in the best possible faith, it is fuzzy and full of vague terms like "what do we feel", "where would we like them to be", and "would it be reasonable" etc. I don't consider those targets to be suitable for PRP as they are susceptible to so many influences - even if the teacher does the best job possible.

    As Jack says: Teachers are being denied pay progression because performance management targets are often highly subjective and tied to factors beyond their control. So don’t let this happen.’
  8. School Boy Error

    School Boy Error Occasional commenter

    This is a different problem entirely. I think, if a teacher can say 'Little Jimmy didn't make age related because his hamster died and his parents split up' or 'Sarah didn't make age related because her Auntie Sue came and lived with her and her home life was very disrupted' but here's what I did. Look at their books, I put these interventions in place etc etc. Then they should get their pay rise and in my school, they do.

    However, as with anything like the removal of pay portability and the introduction of performance related pay, some 'less informed' heads shall we say and using this unfairly. That doesn't mean though that you can't work with data based targets. I skimmed through that link but didn't really like his tone. He said he was used to data based targets but surely a salesmen data based targets actually rely on others buying the product - from his argument no one ever could be set targets because they all depend on getting others to do something...
  9. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    That's how it should be. Unfortunately that's not how it is. There is some shockingly poor practice going on in schools with the tacit approval of Ofsted. This will surely change.

    Really? He's well respected and has done some excellent work regarding the misuse of statistics and data in schools. I would recommend reading his webpages closely. His work has led to Ofsted making some important changes RAISEOnline etc and to the way they use statistics, and has led to inspectors now needing to pass tests to show they actually understand data and statistics a little better (although as a scientist, I know full well that the understanding of statistics in schools, and what they can be reliably said to show, is fairly pitiful)

    That's a misreading. His work is evidence-based and draws on many sources.

    This is also worth reading and part of what started it all off (from Philip Moriarty - an astrophysicist at Nottingham, railing against the misuse of stats in schools:
    The comments are good too

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