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Application for teacher training rejected for unfair reason

Discussion in 'Trainee and student teachers' started by suertesamp, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. suertesamp

    suertesamp New commenter

    I am looking into this for my girlfriend. She has been rejected for teacher training, based on her qualifications. She has literacy and numeracy level 2, AND has passed the competence exams for literacy and numeracy required to train to teach. She was very upset to find that she has been contacted today by her training provider that she is not eligible to train because she has not got C in GCSE maths and English! This is despite her being offered a placement to teach computing at secondary after successful interview. This was a conditional offer, and she was told that she could start training in September if she passes her competency exams for literacy and numeracy.
    Unfortunately, she quit her TA job after passing the required exams and has now been left in limbo. She is having to sign on the dole if this is not sorted, and has bills to pay. She is at high risk of being evicted from her house because she will really struggle to pay the rent and the bills while on jobseekers. My girlfriend has been untreated, surely?
    Does anybody know if she definitely requires the GCSE in maths and English or what she can do to possibly resolve this issue?
    Thank you!!
  2. blueskydreaming

    blueskydreaming Lead commenter

    You must have GCSEs grade C or equivalent in maths and English in order to be allowed to teach. It's a basic requirement. Here: https://getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/eligibility-for-teacher-training

    You don't say what literacy and numeracy qualifications she has - if they are actually equivalent to GCSEs then some training courses may accept them, some may not (the higher tier, more competitive training providers may not).

    She has a couple of options: she could contact the training provider to reconfirm that her qualifications are not acceptable; she could contact other training providers to see if they'd accept them; she could retake her GCSEs in maths and English (and reapply for next year's intake).

    Please don't moan about unfairness when she should have checked the requirements, and whether she met them, prior to applying. It was a conditional offer, and she didn't meet the conditions.
  3. saluki

    saluki Lead commenter

    I never cease to be amazed about the amount of people who want to be teachers because they haven't got GCSEs in English and Maths. I assume that she has a degree. Therefore, she must have written assignments using a good standard of English. She may possibly have used Maths when studying for her degree.
    Off to the local FE college now and enrol for English and Maths GCSE starting in September. After a year of studying alongside teenagers she may want to change her mind about teaching.
    There are plenty of TA jobs about and she should be able to pick something up in September. The college will probably have LSA jobs available. The GCSEs will only take up 6-9 hours a week of her time. No problem. Nothing like the amount of time that she will spend on lesson preparation and marking when she is a teacher.
    PicaPicaCorvid and pepper5 like this.
  4. uu15926

    uu15926 New commenter

    The guidelines mention "a standard equivalent to a GCSE", which is not the same as having an actual GCSE. I would argue that any degree exceeds GCSE English, even A-Levels require a competency in English.

    It also surprises me that there is no "rolling" CGSE exams, so you can take your GCSEs at any time. It should be a doddle to create a computer-generated maths test, and have it marked instantly online.
    PicaPicaCorvid likes this.
  5. HappyRose

    HappyRose New commenter

    After a quick Google, it's my opinon that it was unfair for them not to highlight the GCSE requirement as a condition... BUT that's without seeing the 'paperwork'.

    IRL it's hard to say as I would imagine they so stipulate it as an entry requirement when she applied.

    According to NQF (national qualifications framework) a Key skills level 2 (which Im assuming is you mean she has) is equivalent to GCSE grades A - C.

    According to Getintoteaching you need a GCSE Maths & English OR standard equivalent to teach secondary but this is upto the provider to accept.

    I'm not sure. If it were me I'd contact the provider and show them my GCSE equivalent qualifaction, along with print outs of the information below (see quotes) proving it's an accepted equivalent and then ask them to reconsider...

    Failing that I'd talk to other provider and see if they can offer me a place...

    And failing all that?
    Well I'd know my time has ran out to achieve a place this year and look at contacting other providers for next year/ getting my GCSEs/gaining a job in something I enjoy elsewhere (or that pays the bills).

    But that's just me...

    Links here:

    "GCSE requirement
    If you want to train to teach, you will need to demonstrate:

    a standard equivalent to a GCSE grade C / grade 4 in mathematics and English to teach at secondary levela standard equivalent to a GCSE grade C / grade 4 in mathematics, English and a science subject to teach at primary levelYour training provider will make the final decision on whether you meet this entry criteria – if you don’t, they may ask you to sit a GCSE equivalency test, or offer other evidence to demonstrate your attainment."


    "NQF Level Two

    GCSE grades A*- CBTEC first diplomas and certificatesOCR NationalsKey Skills level 2NVQs"

    I hope this all makes some kind of sense.

    Good luck with it all. Do let us know how she gets on.

    HappyR x
  6. saluki

    saluki Lead commenter

    FS level 2 used to be accepted as a GCSE equivalent. This is no longer the case. In fact, I have taught students who already have degrees who have appalling standards of written and spoken English.
    From your comments about 'rolling' GCSEs I assume that you do not teach GCSE and have no conception of the workload involved. There are exams in the Summer and retake options in November. I believe the Maths exam consists of 3 papers now.
  7. pickles124

    pickles124 Established commenter

    In actual fact (and you have to be realistic here), there aren't that many TA jobs out there. She will obviously want a Level 3 TA job.

    Let me tell you. I havr been actively jobhunting since May with only 2 interviews.

    And having a Degree means absolutely nothing because people are getting rejected on the grounds of not holding the nvq qualification.

    I wish your girlfriend the best will in the world because she will need it.
  8. danlee

    danlee New commenter

    It is well understood that a GCSE in English and maths is required for entry onto teaching training. As a computer science teacher myself, I can't see how she would be able to teach it effectively if she hasn't got a C or above in maths; it's a very mathematical subject. Has she considered returning to being a TA or a behaviour mentor?
    Pomz and DYNAMO67 like this.
  9. sabram86

    sabram86 Occasional commenter

    I have taught functional skills English and GCSE English and I must say that there is a wide gap between the qualifications. The new English GCSE (and the older awards from quite some time ago) are much more rigorous, requiring greater work on behalf of candidates and the demonstration of a greater range of knowledge and skills across the assessments. I would hold that, in reality, the English GCSE and other "equivalents" assess quite different standards. Having a business of my own with tutors, I would not employ tutors without GCSE English and maths. I would not accept "equivalents" at all.

    Teachers are meant to be academic. I would doubt the value of someone's degree if they had not passed each stage of their education convincingly. It requires little ability and knowledge to obtain five GCSEs including maths and English, as well as two A-levels at grade C and above. Please do not bleat that "qualifications do not matter" - they are what our pupils and students work towards. If teachers cannot obtain them, it is hard to see how they can help their students obtain them.
    Pomz, wanet, saluki and 2 others like this.
  10. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    I think I'd be marginally concerned about taking on a trainee to do computing science without a grade C in GCSE Mathematics

    ....and nobody should be doing a teacher training course without a C in English
    Pomz, wanet and DYNAMO67 like this.
  11. Teachallover

    Teachallover Occasional commenter

    Could she try a back door route as a student to get into teaching? I know all lot of students who did a 3 year Education Studies degree whilst re-sitting their English/ Maths and a science subject at GCSE to get a grade C in each. Many had a Child Care and Education diploma equivalent to A Levels. Upon graduating they then moved onto a PGCE now having the required qualifications to gain QTS...
  12. sabram86

    sabram86 Occasional commenter

    Is that really a solution? Taking a degree to pass the time while quietly redoing GCSEs in maths and English? It gives "The Profession" a bad name.
  13. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    I would stand down the debate. There is a formal 'equivalency' test you can take for English or maths and you can take it at any time to get an 'instant' GCSE in English or Maths. This is nothing to do with the provider. It's been a DofE requirement for years. Even though you might possess a degree and an A level in English you still have to have a GCSE in English in order to start training to teach. I quite agree, it's mad. And to make it worse they then make you take the QTS skills test in....English and Maths.

    I'm afraid the Daily Mail is to blame.
  14. Teachallover

    Teachallover Occasional commenter

    Nonsense, it is perfectly legitimate, are you saying if you got a D grade for GCSE English or Maths you never have a right to re-sit and get a C grade? Loads of students in my cohort did that. Plus I hardly think graduating in a degree of Education Studies is to 'pass the time' - that is insulting to say to those professional graduates who then progress onto a PGCE.

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