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Appeasement as a behaviour management strategy

Discussion in 'Supply teaching' started by lovejoy_antiques, Dec 24, 2019.

  1. physicsfanboy

    physicsfanboy Occasional commenter

    Can't be bothered to reply to most of your gibberish. But, because I like shouting into the void, would you argue that Hitler was not hard right? The nazis were pretty right wing, if I recall my history correctly...
     
  2. a1976

    a1976 Occasional commenter

    But what you just did was accuse people of being against the left as fascists, which posits a very striking question of whether or not you encourage critical thinking in your lessons.
     
  3. abwdSTEM

    abwdSTEM Occasional commenter

    Critical thinking is not necessary in Physics because Physics is a science and like all sciences its a "proper " subject. In "proper" subjects things are either right or wrong and there is no place for all that woolly thinking you get in the "make believe" subjects.

    :p:p:p:p:p.

    PS: Its a joke don't get too wound up about it.:D
     
    blazer, a1976 and TheOracleAtDelphi like this.
  4. lovejoy_antiques

    lovejoy_antiques Senior commenter

    Thanks for your contribution senator McCarthy.
     
    blazer and a1976 like this.
  5. a1976

    a1976 Occasional commenter

    That made my day :)
     
  6. SineField

    SineField Occasional commenter

    No what you cant do is address points to which you have no defence....


    I'll give you some enlightened quotes

    "The left hate free speech. They can't defend their own ideas so they want to suppress yours."

    “Funny isn't it how these socialist kids who hate gov't control want more gov't control.”

    And one of my personal favourites..

    "Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners."


    So anyway rather than say...'I can't be bothered..' .... go back to the original post and address each of my points that you disagree with. Any that you don't address I will rightly assume you agree with. I like a good discussion but not with someone that's intellectually lazy.
     
    a1976 likes this.
  7. physicsfanboy

    physicsfanboy Occasional commenter

    Ok, I have some time to waste. What the hey. So I am supposed to be ashamed of being a science teacher? You don't like science? I'm guessing reality has a left wing bias and that upsets you.

    As I said before I am pretty confident Hitler was pretty right wing. What with being a fascist.I note you didn't bother to reply on that point, are you too intellectually lazy? While it is true I am ignorant of many things (I don't know much forensic mineralogy), the political spectrum in terms of left / right is not complicated. I'm sure you can look it up on google.

    You are making some very large assumptions on no evidence. In science, we try to avoid doing that. As it happens, there is a spectrum of appropriate and inappropriate responses to fascism. It is highly contingent on context. My grandfather (for example) shot fascists dead. Here and now that would be murder, in WWII however it earned him a medal. As for your last 'point' I am aware that one cannot be two mutually exclusive things, as the intelligent, honourable right wing pundit remarked.

    I am indeed, as right wing politics is concerned about the rights of the individual. Many individuals take that to mean 'me'. The error you are making is assuming that I am assuming that the other end of the spectrum is all fluffy and lovely. Left wing thought is about the rights of groups. Many individuals take that to mean 'my group'. Hard right and hard left are both deeply unpleasant. Living under communism was just as nasty as living under nazism if you weren't one of the preferred group. I mostly talk about (even rant about) the right because they are currently the threat.

    For someone that hates teachers so much, you appear to be hanging out on the wrong website. I would argue that teachers are amongst the most grounded, reality appreciating people. We see the sharp end of society. What many of us also have in common is education, and therefore the ability to think about the world being different to how it is now. The hard right like to portray the neo liberal capitalist nightmare as being a 'natural' thing. Those of us that have a deeper understanding know better.
     
    blazer likes this.
  8. a1976

    a1976 Occasional commenter

    Hard right and hard left are both deeply unpleasant.

    But yet your posts indicate you support the hard left, otherwise you wouldn't have got your diapers so soiled over a post.
     
  9. a1976

    a1976 Occasional commenter

    Oh by the way, this site is for people affiliated and were affiliated with education, including those such as myself who used to be a teacher and supply teacher. There is no requirement whatever about the site being strictly for people still in the profession. Again, you have to face that people have different opinions and will say things you don't like.
     
  10. steviepal

    steviepal Occasional commenter

    At what point did that post show any kind of allegiance to the hard left? Really?
     
  11. SineField

    SineField Occasional commenter

    Excellent.... I knew a bit of amateur psychology would be all it took to change your mind ;)

    You couldn't be further from the truth... I enjoy all things maths and science. The reason that you should be ashamed is because you are a science teacher, but yet seem to have no grasp of logic.

    The Nazi party = National Socialist German Workers' Party

    In their adherence to fascism, they shared many common traits with those of modern left wing parties... ie) contempt not only for electoral democracy but also political and cultural liberalism. They had a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (Translation: “people’s community”), whereby individual interests are subordinated to the good of the nation. You can see how similar communist ideology is to this.

    Many of the above were demonstrated in the recent Brexit nightmare and subsequent election by Labour, Lib dems, Law courts and Civil Service amongst others. And these type of traits are always manifested when left wing parties attempt to take power. For example, right leaning parties are pro-free speech, it is the loony left that created the free-speech hating SJW. Anti-semitism is another excellent example of how left wing = Nazi.

    You clearly don't understand how 'left' and 'right' work in sociopolitical and socioeconomic terms.

    The further right you go, the more the rights and accountability of the individual become apparent and the smaller the influence and responsibility of centralised government. This is why 'anarchy' is the extreme end of right wing politics since there is no centralised government!!

    Hitler is often labelled as 'far-right', but this is often done mistakenly due to not understanding the realities of the terms (and a poor grasp of history).

    NO, NO and NO...... left wing thought is not about the rights of groups.

    I will put things in simple terms that you can understand:

    LEFT = Large government with a large amount of control and responsibility over the activities of the population. There is a drive towards a homogeny of purpose and behaviour amongst the population that is often dictated by an unelected ruling power. Higher taxation.

    Basically..... we provide you with most things, but you don't get a say in how things are run and have to do as your told.

    RIGHT = Small government with a small amount of control and responsibility over the activities of the population. There is a drive towards a heterogeny of purpose and behaviour amongst the population that is usually facilitated by an elected democratic power. Lower taxation.

    Basically...... we only provide the bare essentials, you have to sort yourselves out for the rest but you get a big say in how things are run.

    Naturally, there are the shades of grey inbetween and the extreme ends of either are rarely if ever seen.

    QUOTE="physicsfanboy, post: 13005706, member: 26496983"You are making some very large assumptions on no evidence. In science, we try to avoid doing that. As it happens, there is a spectrum of appropriate and inappropriate responses to fascism. It is highly contingent on context. My grandfather (for example) shot fascists dead. Here and now that would be murder, in WWII however it earned him a medal. As for your last 'point' I am aware that one cannot be two mutually exclusive things, as the intelligent, honourable right wing pundit remarked.[/QUOTE]

    There is an overwhelming abundance of evidence on the antics of Antifa, especially in the US. That you choose to remain ignorant is irrelevant.

    Many have drawn comparisons to Hitler's 'Brown shirts' in how they operate.

    And indeed the following quote hits the mail on the head... “The fascists of the future will call themselves anti-fascists”:

    Teachers are for the most part in no way "reality appreciating"..... this is evidenced by their political beliefs..... left wingers deal with fantastical, utopian nonsense that doesn't exist anywhere on Earth.

    Many of the problems in education are down to the teachers themselves. There is significant moral cowardice in many schools...... the teachers like to complain to each other in the staff room over a cup of tea, but when push comes to shove and the next ridiculous strategy gets handed down by SLT, the teachers will say.... "Oh yes OK, lets try this out... etc"...... hence why it is that schools SLT are dominated by 'Yes' men and women.

    I don't remotely hate teachers.... I have been one myself for several years and have several friends in the profession. What I do dislike is how many (but not all) teachers fail to grasp the reality of working life outside a school and how the practices they advocate invariably do nothing but mollycoddle the students and set them up for difficulty when they get a job.

    You do realise there is a reason why sooooo many teachers try to get jobs in private schools and/or work abroad don't you?
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
    bramblesarah likes this.
  12. a1976

    a1976 Occasional commenter

    "hard right trolls making quasi fascistic suggestions on TES"

    Sometimes, when someone suggests something conservative or in favour of conservative ideas, others attacks by calling them names along the lines of "hard right trolls" and can't seem to debate or offer any opposing ideas. I find it hilarious although sometimes, you have to feel sorry for them.
     
  13. steviepal

    steviepal Occasional commenter

    You've lost me pal. You've clearly got a flag to wave. Enjoy.
     
    blazer likes this.
  14. freshfriesan

    freshfriesan Occasional commenter

    ha ha, restorative justice stuff indeed. i ll be back with some good old waffle tomorrow here. this is exactly the stuff i like and im delighted to find that there are other folk involved in education that are able to see the sinister agenda being played out.

    ive a load more thoughts to formulate in my head but ill speak to fan boy first. physicist to physicist like. the uncertainty principle and all that.

    in my experience as a teacher and as a person brought up in a peripheral ghetto and now living in an inner city ghetto , in my experience most of the teachers that i have come across in my 20 years of teaching havent got the slightest handle on how things actuially are in the inner cities. they have their own media tainted perceptions of the lives the kids from the ghettos lead but they are patronising and delusional views from what i see. teachers who go on about the kids not being loved enough and parents not caring blah de blah. the most loving kids i taught camefrom the roughest neck of the woods, they wouldnt be able to show love were they not love. on the other hand, the kids with the most nervy non issues and daft delusions and silly billy silly billy media programmed ways were those that were in the outer suburb of the city. the on#es bandying around the racist and sexist labels on each other without having a clue what they were talking about, just that these were words they had a vague understanding of.

    Ill be giving this a proper read over the next few days and be making some insightful and waflly contributions.

    i hadnt enjoyed a general election so much since 1997. i can tell you all also in the first decade of the 21st century what i witnessed in education was a whole load of wasted money on national strategy and qtc and the gtc. a whole load of money wasted and all this **** way of managing behaviour being brought in , ive got to unpick a load of it myself but it looks to me that in the early part of this century certain remits were given to the newly appointed heads and deputy heads of how to do things. ie, not tackle behaviour. early in the thread i read of all the logging and chasing of detentions and phone calls home and all that laborious stuff that amounted to nothing but troublke for the teacher doing the logging. for sure i was a victim of this. "go and collect them for detention" and then theyd run off, and id report that and get told that i had to set another detention and thus humiliate myself furhter. the hours i spent following their procedures for no back up and a whole load of directed coaching. absolute hog wsh. and at the top of this, a head teacher i believe to be part of that left labour breed...who are only following orders, that is all they do you sdee, these leadership teams. they are leaders playing follow the leader. they have npo original thought nor initiative of their own. they are given directives and orders to follow from whoever above. projects and studies to complete and participate in. we are subjects of the state. subjects are studied. the state education system is not fir for purpose. its an absolute sham...there is no social mobility, there are doors that arent even visible to most of us never mind getting the keys to unlock them. if you think that going to uiniversity and getting a degree so you can become a teacxher or a social worker or doctor or solicitor is becoming socially mobile, moving up the ladder cop yourself on. theyvew only allowed the ordinary bod access to higher education because they want us as debt wage slaves now there are tuition fees and they want us to do all them jobs of bossing our own about. its not social mobility at all. its a sham.

    all this dreadful way schools are ran is to make sure that you have a work force that never feels comfortable, people in fear of losing their homes so they will toe the line and follow the orders and not cause trouble for the people above....and creating the little spies , yeah, the empowerment of the youth , theres a page or so on it in 1984 about the horrible children who love to grass on the adults to the thought police and all that. that is precisely what it is all about. empowering the youth, making them feel important and weakening the power of the adults.

    yes fan boy, this will sound far fetched butt this is fascism. the left love fascism. the left is a very patronising thing. the likes of owen jones and crew who have appointed themselves spokespeople for the voiceless and marginalised. all they are doing is steling their voices and identity and patronising them. stealing food from their mouths as all the funding is diverted from them to their stupid services for the poor and marginalised.

    equality. theres another one, all the middle class yummy mummy labour types in suburbia love to talk the talk about equality and diversity, they wont be too happy when hubbys wage is equal to the national minimum wage, the living wage the workewrs wage or whatever they call it. did you see that on the news? minimum wage has beaten inflation , by loads over the last few years as it has risen by a few pence but the average wage in effect has gone down. thats whats happening, oh yeah, you will all get what you asked for , the quality where everyone is on the same abyssmal rate of pay. diversity yeah, the yummy mummy loves a bit of diversity in their bohemian area, the world food restaurants, but when they start turning the huge houses in the area into hostels for assylum seekers, they wont be so happy then when their house prices take a tumble due to the proximity of half way houses and the like. thats how it is. its all fantasy stuff. ill be back another day as ive got moreto read and comment upon. namely the way that behaviour isnt being dealt with in schools and im pretty sure i was in one of the experimental schools about 15 years ago for 6 years.its a thing i ve noticed becoming more prevalant these last few years. im just glad im out of it but its what has resulted in me losing work, my last bit of work, i was logging incidents on their system. behaviour was a thing they cited when they said they didnt want me any more, so it does seem schools do not want behaviour logged at all. funny thing was was i was doing plenty of crediting on their system , yeah, i am very glad to be away from all this. i want to live long and happy. i took an improvised weapon from a kid last year and the school deputy head did nothing about that. so my safety is paramount. something needs doing about this. never mind teachers going on strike. parents need to be made aware of it and start keeping their kids away from these places. thats where the power really lies in encouraging kids to talk to their parents about the terrible stuff they see happening in classrooms and the parents taking it to the management. in my experience thats the excuse management love to pull out for anything "we dont want parents to complain" righteo, get the parents to start complaining to these lazy inepts and make them earn their money. ive a grandchild due this year. i will be trying to get my son to let me home school that child becausew i know how bad these schools are, i dont want my grandson near the idiot teachers for one. a lot of them are idiots. cowardly gossipy idiots. gullible patronising fools who believe themselves more important than they are. believe themselves a better authority than a childs parent. awful people a great many of them that ive worked with. no guts nor justice about them. bullies and tale tellers and gossips.
     
    a1976 likes this.
  15. Canteloube

    Canteloube New commenter

    Pain that is not dealt with is transmitted and I see a lot of pain and anger in some of these recent posts. I wonder about the motivation of making personal attacks which demean the poster rather than the target. I think it is better to deal with angst in another setting rather than a forum although I know that in reading this it too will draw out anger and attacks from some people which I will ignore. One of the best guides I saw was a motto outside a teacher training institution in another country which applies in all educational circumstances: Seek the truth, foster understanding and live up to the name of teacher.
     
  16. a1976

    a1976 Occasional commenter

    Well if you don't like or enjoy or feel triggered by people posting their opinions on something that has become a serious problem, you are free to leave the forum or not log on at all.
     
  17. a1976

    a1976 Occasional commenter

    I think you really have hit the nail right on the head. Well said!
     
  18. SineField

    SineField Occasional commenter

    Some very insightful posts Fresh

    A classic leftist symptom.... and one famously used by many a WW2 war-criminal.

    The traditional mass media (who are largely left leaning) have long brainwashed the ironically so-called 'educated middle class professionals' into believing that 'Right wing = Nazi = Fascist', whereas if any of these 'educated' types would have picked up a book, done their homework and applied logic would see that actually it has always been the case that the reverse is the truth and that left wing politics has an enormous undercurrent of fascist tendencies.

    In order to control the masses politically and socially you must first get them to believe the lie.

    A famous example is the Democrat party in the US who regularly call the Republicans racist, whilst concealing at all costs the fact that the KKK was founded by the Democrats and that virtually all the original plantation owners were Democrats too.

    This lie for many years enabled 95% of black voters to be considered guaranteed Democrat votes... it is only in the last few years that thanks to the wider internet media that the reality of the Democrat party has come out.

    Absolutely... your average upper-mid class Lib-Dem/Lab/Green voting, London living yummy mummy views herself as being a bastion of enlightenment, compassion and understanding for those "poor foreign immigrants"..... HOWEVER, inform her that the house next door to hers is going to be converted into a refugee asylum and witness a transformation of her attitude so complete that you would think you were watching something out of an Marvel's Avengers movie!

    In the old days of the USSR and WW2 Germany, the aristocratic and political elites would often talk about their compassion and dedication towards the masses...... but would they live among or associate with them in any way...... Errm nooooooo.
     
    a1976 likes this.
  19. steviepal

    steviepal Occasional commenter

    Anybody know what the collective noun for trolls is? Asking for a friend.
     
    richardmthompson1 likes this.
  20. physicsfanboy

    physicsfanboy Occasional commenter

    It really is quite astonishing to see the right wing posters here claim that black is white, that left wing is fascism, that the media in the UK is left leaning. It is the level of 'alternative facts' that enabled Trump to be elected. Assuming they are serious in their posts, rather than just taking the mick.
    As the great Pauli once said "this is not even wrong".
     

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