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APP maths 'insufficient evidence'

Discussion in 'Primary' started by yaminsmum, Dec 12, 2009.

  1. I also find literacy much easier, I do independent writing every Friday and use this, so I can see that they know something rather than assessing them the day I teach it. So in a way I'm using summative assessment for APP. I do daily assessment as well, formative, that leads my planning.
    I find collecting evidence for Maths so much more difficult. The only way is to ask several children questions in OM starter time and note answers. How else do I collect evidence to show they know rather than they can the day I teach it?
  2. Gratzia

    Gratzia New commenter

    I agree. It doesn't matter if there's no evidence for some areas of maths as long as you have it by the end of the year. As 'Firerose' said it makes it easier to see what needs to be taught and any gaps can be covered in guided maths in the summer term.
  3. spmills

    spmills New commenter

    I have differentiated folders set out with extension work in if the children complete their activity. I make sure that the worksheets in these folders are related to other areas of maths which i am not teaching in that week/unit. This way, when you mark these, you can see whether the children have an understanding.
  4. Once APP is made compulsory and the people above decide that we can be trusted with it there will be no evidence collecting at all.
    All this 6 children evidence folders nonsense is part of the 'training process'.
  5. Hi pinkflipflop
    How do you know this? is it a guess or have you got this info from somewhere? If it's true it seems like a complete waste of time - as is a lot of the rubbish we have to do.
    Primary teachers seem to be really stitched up compared to secondary.
  6. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    Can you give us the evidence that this is true, PPF?
  7. lovely

    lovely Occasional commenter

    An excellent way of obtaining evidence is that once a week (friday in my schools case)...we are doing Mega Maths. This is very similar to Big Write where devoted time is given to problem solving and investigation work. It is completely independent work, where there is NO modelling for the children so it is true independent evidence.
    If you are doing say Block C - measures that week, then the mega maths is an investigation that revisits a previously taught block - for example Block B - shape The children are free to use whatever resources they want.
    The role of the adults is crucial, using questioning to find out how the children are approaching the task and making the most of any detours. It is fascinating!!!
    Build up portfolios of childrens work...it ususally hits at least 2 of the MA'S....ill see if i can post something in the resource area to show people what im talking about or feel free to email me and ill see where the planning is....

  8. Elfreda6969

    Elfreda6969 New commenter

    Maths is harder because I have had many occasions when children are able to do the activity because it has just been modelled to them. If you present it to them again - they struggle to remember!!!
  9. The people at our regional APP meeting told us so! Apart from their word and the slide handout in my folder that says it I don't have 'evidence'.
    Lots of schools have already decided not to keep any evidence.
  10. I am finding lots of the same problems with APP in maths. I've seen in the resource bank that someone wonderful has created their own end of unit tests, although this is an independant test it would build up knowledge of whether the class/pupils are secure, I've just posted to ask if anyone else have created these tests for other year groups.
    Im struggling for all the same reasons as you guys. I work with 1 group every day and am dating the objectives (or whatever they r called) but its hard to date every objective, for every group every day (if that makes sense!) I feel we need another resource, which i dont mind creating if no one already has.

    Sorry if i've waffled, but its great to discover that lots of other teachers are feeling the same, PHEW!!
    Laura xx
  11. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    We've suffered all this in EY for ages now. All those blasted obs....
  12. aspen_1

    aspen_1 New commenter

    Yes, several for each sub-level from 2c to 5a but I've removed these and all my other stuff because out of the thousands who downloaded everything I created only a few bothered to post feedback.
  13. Firerose

    Firerose New commenter

    Elfreda6969 that's absolutely true!
    I think the problem is that by nature, Maths is either right or wrong. You work it out and get the answer or you don't and I'm starting to think that the only way to assess maths is through a test. It's harder to use APP in Maths than Literacy because in writing children can demonstrate so many things in one go - handwriting, vocab, connectives, punctuation - and you can see clear progress from piece to piece.
    The current block units are problematic for me as I feel like I'm rushing through them sometimes as we are also an ISP school. I wish I could get the assessng process right for Maths but at the moment APP feels like picking out random things. I am not highlighting much because I don't truly feel children have achieved say 'mental methods' as they have achieved using 'WOW words.'
  14. I feel exactly the same Firerose, on another thread I started on this subject fulloffun posted the following link
    I think this looks good and managable, and I'm going to try it after Christmas. Fingers crossed I will feel more positive about APP in numeracy
  15. Any chance of adding more information about this, or emailing me an example of your work - this is an area where I'm struggling at the moment!?
    Thanks in advance!
  16. Hi,

    I think the main issue with APP is how time consuming it can be. My school has started using The APP Maths Toolkit made by modi learning. So far it seems to be cutting the work load for APP by about 90% as it has resources for every objective and a spreadsheet to record the results. There is a nice mix of resources so we are not just handing out worksheets the whole time and can do group work etc.

    Hope this is of help.
  17. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    <font size="2">I didn't think you HAD to keep evidence anyway. Only need to if you are moderating. This will continue even if APP is made compulsory as there will always be moderation in schools.</font>
  18. Also stoke grid for learning has some useful half-termly assessments.
  19. We started with Literacy. Much more straightforward than maths I'm finding.
    I've fiddled around with lots of ways to do it. Currently I have a large A3 sheet with the four MAs on it (double sided). I have one sheet per group. I note any APP opportunities on the planning (in a Word doc so I can build this up over the years to come without re-doing!) and when working with a group I use the A3 sheet to scribble all over.
    Also, the TAs have a book they just note anything that springs to mind or they see (eg Dylan can count in 10s). This helps with completing the Key Objectives sheet we have to do (which does NOT always link with APP !!!)
    I have lots 'in my head' (!) if any moderator asks.
    But I think it IS time consuming and poorly constructed. Just do the best. No evidence (cos you've not taught it) has to be IE. It's a building up process.
  20. I teach in a secondary school but also do link work with feeder primaries. This year APP has been a hot topic but several of the primaries I work with have used the 'APP Maths Toolkit' with very good results. As an earlier poster pointed out, it can be difficult to gather evidence for a particular AF but the Modi materials are targeted at separate AFs, saving time on moderation and working all the business of 'getting a feel for a level'.

    The Wigan Council resources mentioned earlier are very good but as far as I know don't target specific AFs.

    In secondary school we use a combination of the Modi Learning package together with some resources from Kangaroo maths.

    I'm not sure what the official line is for primaries as regards how many pupils to assess. In my school we are expected to assess the whole class but have managed to do this without too much difficulty by using a combination of written work, group activities and mini-whiteboards. We carry out around one APP assessment every two weeks and usually make it part of our everyday teaching.


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