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APP - how many children per class?

Discussion in 'Primary' started by pinkflipflop, Jan 6, 2011.

  1. APP sheets for every child....just as the guidance states.
  2. Hi, we use APP for all children in our class for; reading, writing, numeracy, speaking and listening and science.
    I have come home today feeling completely smothered with paperwork and wondering if the grass is greener at another school.


    Ps appologies for any spelling or grammar mistakes- I'm to tired to check ?
  3. Same here, currently for Writing, reading and maths. We don't collect evidence, just reference where it can be found ( eg Science book 23/11/10)
  4. Hmm, I wonder why....
    Sounds like it definetly would be...
    Hmm, I wonder why....
  5. [​IMG]
  6. flickaz

    flickaz New commenter

    We only started using APP at the beginning of September. At the moment we're doing 2 top, 2 middle and 2 bottom children and using APP alongside other assessments.
  7. tafkam

    tafkam Occasional commenter

    It's not what you do, it's the way that you do it!
    Every child, but none of that nonsense of photocopying evidence or other such nonsense!
  8. We are the same tafkam. If anyone wants to see 'evidence' they can go and look for it themselves.
  9. Thanks for the rapid replies [​IMG]
    I'm a fan of the 'every child, every time' approach and cannot see how using sample children, who may or may not continue to be representative of the group they represented in September, is particularly useful or informative.
    Talking to the Head, I expressed my concern that using 6 children from one class for the entire year would make it very difficult when it comes to giving in-depth assessments of the performance and progress of vulnerable groups...she agreed. As assessment co-ordinator (not on SLT), I will be going to an SLT meeting soon to be in on the discussion about sample APPing vs. whole class APPing... I'm wondering about providing each classteacher on SLT with a list of children from their class that I would like APPed; those on FSM, those with SEN, those with EAL, those born after 1st April, white British boys, children with EBD, children in LA care, those who've transferred mid-year etc. etc. and say I'm quite happy for the same sample of 6 pupils to be used but in addition, I need full assessments on every child on my list.
    I know that the classteachers on SLT don't want to do the whole class or different sample children; they want to do 6 children per subject, per year.[​IMG]
  10. I don't suppose you could point me to whereabouts in the guidance that this is stated? I've trawled through the handbook etc. and can't find anything so clear.
  11. Which would surely make the data useless because you can't track the progress because you have assessed different children at different points of the year. It's like an investigation, you cant change two variables. Either change the time of year but keep the children the same (a group of children for example 6 times a year), or you do the whole class. It isn't like answering a question in class and it needing to be fairer...
    JSY x
  12. reddevil

    reddevil Occasional commenter

    Every child for S&L, Reading, Writing and Maths. We use Classroom Monitor which is soooo much better than sheets last year. We don't keep evidence but reference where it can be found like some other posters do. It has taken some getting used to but getting faster at it now.
  13. Thank you Pink Flip Flop, that's a great help!
    So far, no-one has said they work in a school where only a sample of children are fully assessed using APP.

  14. flickaz

    flickaz New commenter

    You didn't read my post then? We do 6 children per class.
  15. I'm a bit nonplused at the notion of doing 'APP tests' since one of the motivations behind APP seemed to be to use everyday assessment as evidence for APP. In secondary schools we started using homework and mini-whiteboard sessions as part of our assessment and actually found the need for 'end of unit' tests declined rapidly.

    For resources we used a combination of the Modi Learning materials and our own sheets/presentations. I'm not familiar with Classroom Monitor, does anyone know the cost of this and does it include any resources or is it a replacement for the APP paper sheets?

    I do outreach work with our feeder primary schools and most of them are now doing whole class APP. I do feel for them, it took us quite a while to get up to speed on just maths so for them having to APP several subjects must be tough going.

    APP is not and never was statutory. My own experience though is that implemented correctly it can be very useful in directing intervention work and monitoring progress. We do keep some evidence in the form of written work and have found having resources that target specific assessment foci to be useful in doing this.
  16. JumpingStarfish

    JumpingStarfish New commenter

    I hadn't heard of it either and was just having a look at www.classroommonitor.co.uk - It looks good, but there's no money in next year's budget for classroom supplies, let alone something like that. Its a shame because I think it would help.

    We have to APP every child in our class and are meant to do it for EVERY subject! I still haven't got my head round it after four months - if I'm completely honest I don't understand half the freaking terminology, even after looking it up (which takes even more time up!). As much as I'm anti-SATs, this is just so much work and I am so snowed under with it all, even this soon after the holidays. Fed up again now.
  17. We do it for 6 children reading, writing and maths with speaking and listening on the way. The reason behind this was that if you had a detailed assessment of child a then you could use that to compare the rest of the kids in child a's group and make judgements about them - the rest fo the group having the same level and the same target they should be comparable. In practise though i've found that there are often many differencies and that some surge ahead more quickly, some trail behind and obviously some are better/worse at certain tasks / assessment focii that others. (I did kind of know this before I started!!!!) So, for maths especially (having more areas that reading or writing), i've ended up with that many notes on the others that tbh, it would be easier to keep track if i started APP sheets for all - today's job. 1 of today's jobs! Which I must make a start on!!
  18. reddevil

    reddevil Occasional commenter

    For those who asked about Classroom Monitor, I'll tell you what I know. I think it was expensive to subscribe too but sorry don't know actual amount. All staff, including TAs and SSAs, have a personal login which is good, but does also mean SMT can see who has added info and when (not sure I like this element of it to be honest!). Each class has a spread sheet online for each element of each subject; eg reading for English and Using and Applying for Maths, that can be exported to Excel as a paper copy if you wish. I do this to use as a tick sheet basically, to have at hand during lessons and while marking, some staff prefer to just add information online. I have also created separate spread sheets online for each group for reading, writing and maths so that it's easier to find the child, AF strand and level that you are working on. For each AF strand in a level you can click it 3 times, first as a target, then as almost met, then as met. When you have clicked met for several strands within a level the software will calculate a sub level for that child. The application does also have a report writing facility but this is something we've not looked at yet. As I said before I do like it, although it did take a bit of getting used to. It's far easier than the paper copies we kept last year for only 6 children. Hope this helps...
  19. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    Using homework as part of your assessments? Interesting.

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