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anyone asked a school to sponsor them to work through the county council?

Discussion in 'Supply teaching' started by claire_owen, Feb 2, 2011.

  1. Hi
    I am thinking of trying to get my own work by writing to schools and seeing if I can do supply through the county council directly because agency work is drying up and I think this might be a better way to get a few days a week long-term work in the same place. It's also a way of being paid more fairly.
    The trouble is in my county you have to be 'sponsored' by a school and they have to be responsible for accrediting me. I am worried about approaching schools I work in regularly to do this as I was introduced to them though an agency and I don't want the agency to find out and give me no work. Plus, I must admit one agency has been very good to me over the years workwise.
    So I was going to write to schools I haven't worked at through the agencies but I think them having to sponsor me might put them off as they might think it's a hassle and might already be using another agency anyway. I am unsure how to word my letter and persuade them to do this. I think it would be cheaper for the school but I don't know how it works enough to know for certain. Does the county council take a cut of you pay like an agency does?
    Anyone done this and can help me with how they worded their letter so it was successful? thanks
  2. I think your move is a smart one.I was mostly LEA employed, then agencies largely displaced this, now I'm looking at rebuilding what I can find through the LEA. Fortunately my local LEAs will still register supply.
    I think your best approach is to put aside a day or half day when you haven't been given work and use that time calling on schools other than your previously agency-introduced ones. You can get feedback, and judge the supply demand too. I'm guessing you might have to pay, so that would reduce some of the hassle on behalf of the schools.
    I'm sure a proportion of schools are still pro-supply at heart, if you visit enough you will find them. I think visiting is a better approach than either writing or emailing.
  3. Pennyforyourthoughts

    Pennyforyourthoughts Occasional commenter

    The LEA requests this as they can only verify your CRB for you to work in schools in their LEA if you have worked for a school who has done a CRB for you to work in their LEA.
    Schools are reluctant to do so these days as so many supply teachers write to them asking to work through their school that they only keep a small number of, usually ex, teachers to call in for supply also it would be too expensive to CRB several only to have little or no work for them for that year. Also if you do not work consistently with the LEA and a break of 12 weeks occur... then the school has to do the CRB all over again as it is out of date due to you not working in the shcool or even the LEA direct for 12 weeks. It happens.
    If you are lucky to get a school who is willing to do a CRB for youit does mean that other schools can verify your CRB and open up more opportunities for supply.
  4. This CRB thing is getting out of had. Every agency wants to do their own and then you have to renew it every three months. I have literally spent hundreds of pounds on them.
    However, today has taken the biscuit for me. This week I actually got my first days supply since May. Yesterday, i submitted my timesheet online. Today, I got a phone call reminding me that my CRB ran out on 27th January, so I should not have been sent out ot the school and therefore the agency will not pay me until the have applied for a fresh CRB, the cost of which will have to be deducted from my wages.!!!
  5. hey. thanks for the reply reguarding the CRB I hadn't thought of that. Ummm, maybe it won't work then.
    I have had my CRB for over two years now and it's fine when I show schools, they don't ask for a more up to date one.
    Could I ask a school I supply through an agency with to do a CRB for me if I pay without them sponsoring me and then get work that way. If I explain to the head why I want it done but without asking them to employ me through the LEA.
  6. To cut a big story down to a little one. The council gave up their responsibility as they couldn't be *****. They often have residual supply teachers they have to deal with with "payroll numbers". The whole point of supply was that by closing the 3 women off on phones and the room they used, they could let agencies do the job (and shaft the teachers) for cheaper. the net affect being that the quality the class is exposed for, per £ goes down.

    I looked at doing this personally and it fell on dead ears. What happened was that the person responsible for cover had a blank cheque and her job was to get someone in, by whatever means necessary. This was usually the biggest agency with the most staff. I then spoke to a load of staff with similar moans and got an opportunity to discuss this with the recently exited local head of LEA. He said that the remit was now with the heads and to approach them directly. Anyway, the upshot was that it was using the blank public chequebook, we all get paid, that goes on the chequebook and we don't give a ****...... besides, Dave and Maggie, the CS do a better job and supply staff are overpaid and ****.

    It's a total non starter and you can do as much work as you like in order to find out the same thing
  7. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    You should at least be claiming tax relief on the costs you incur on CRBs. they are expenses wholly incurred for work purposes, without which you cannot work and so qualify as professional expenses witht he Tax office. You cam back claim fior the last 5 tax years if you can locate evidence of your expenditure in those years.
    Also claim tax relief on the allowable portion of Union subs (ask union what that is) and on the £36 GTC fee (lower fee in some of the past 5 years). The GTC website has a downloadable form for claiming; you need one for each tax year in question.
  8. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    The OP could ask a school to process them for a CRB and offer to pay the fee. That would then allow them to canvas more schools for supply work, with the LA sourced CRB being valid for all, I believe.
    Once employed by one school, you'd get an LA payroll number and would use that on timesheets for all schools employing you in that LA.
    Having said that, schools are cutting back on supply teachers and seem more interested in employing contract and supply cover supervisors. It might also be difficult to get a school where you are a complete unknown to bother with the processing a CRB for you.
    The best route in might be to get a maternity cover post. As these are known about in advance, the school has time to get you CRB'd before they need your services. Pay a visit to all schools where you have not been sent by agencies and hand over CV/ speak to person in charge of staffing or post CV (phone and ask who to send CV to).
    You could also contact the LA advisor for your specialism and ask to be kept informed about upcoming temporary vacancies. They usually know when loacal schools have sickness/maternity leaves on offer.
  9. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    Strictly speaking agencies don't 'take a cut of your pay'. They are your employer, not the school/LA, and they pay you the rate you agreed when you signed a contract with them. They then charge the school an agreed rate, to cover the service that they offer and the employer expenses that they incur (Employers' NI etc)
    When employed on supply through an LA supply register or from direct contact with schools, you get the to-scale pay of a state school teacher (your annual pay point divided by 195) and the school also incur the employers' NI cost and the Employers' contribution to the pension (if you pay into the pension) + an amount to cover payroll admin.
    Every employee in every job costs the employer more than the employee's gross salary.
  10. Jubilee, I regularly look forward to your knowledgeable posts especially about financial matters and conditions of employment, but I feel obliged to keep posting a response to posts which state that LEA teachers get paid to scale on 1/195 of a year's salary. I'm not sure if you are aware that many directly employed teachers are not paid day rate to scale. In a segment of LEAS, (just about most of SW for instance) supply are employed on hourly rate, which is to scale in a sense, but a legal loophole to cut pay, because , you would need the school to record 6.48 hours for the day's work, but instead the schools record a lot less, often 5.25 hours, just classroom contact, not even the 10 minutes before or after school day, and certainly not preparation or marking time. The difference in a day's pay is 1.23 hours, depending on scale point, over £30 a day, and only about 5/6 of a day goes into the pension record for that day.

  11. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    Where hourly rate pay is the norm for LA supply, I'd say that the teacher must be involved in agreeing the normal number of hours to be claimed in a week. If they are required to be present at staff briefings X times per week, the hours claimed should be counted from 8.30 or whenever on those days. There is usually a time for the earliest departure from school (10 mins after pupils leave) so everything up to that time, minus the unpaid lunch break should be claimed. Break times are paid time.
    When there are extra sessions for parents' evenings and departmental meetings, that gets added in.
    If the school won't agree to this, the teacher should simply ask which of the non-contact time at each end of the day they should agree to miss.
    I registered with an LA outsourced agency last year and pay would apparently be 'to-scale' but with Supreme/Best as the employer (so no pension). It turned out to be an hourly paid 'to scale' and I asked whether the flat daily rate changed if I got a long-trem position through them. they said it stayed the same. I asked what incentive there was for me to accept anything other than random days. I got blank looks and have not worked for them.
  12. You have to give them credit. I imagine they feel the way a tapeworm does when the host has dysentry.
  13. "Where hourly rate pay is the norm for LA supply, I'd say that the
    teacher must be involved in agreeing the normal number of hours to be
    claimed in a week. If they are required to be present at staff
    briefings X times per week, the hours claimed should be counted from
    8.30 or whenever on those days. There is usually a time for the
    earliest departure from school (10 mins after pupils leave) so
    everything up to that time, minus the unpaid lunch break should be
    claimed. Break times are paid time."
    But it doesn't work like that for day-to-day supply. The schools would give extra hours for an exceptional circumstance, ie parents' evening, but schools have their policy about the hours they put down for normal days. For many or most schools, this is the time the teacher is actually teaching, something like 5.25 hours. The LEAs deny all knowledge of this, but it must be LEA led behind the scenes as schools within the LEA are consistent. It is probably not strictly legal, but it would be a union matter to take this up nationally. So forget that.
    Supply do not try to negotiate these hours, for fear of not being invited back. That is a valid fear, because there is no way for all supply to work together and present a united front on this. I tried to broach hours with a couple of schools, it did not go well at all and I was not invited back. The unions are toothless too on this matter, although NASUWT did take and win the case in Cheshire, but where I live the LEA schools reduced hours further. The LEA will say it's a matter for negotiation, but the school has to be in desparate need and the supply alerted to the problem to agree "day rate" before agreeing to a days' supply. If it were a long placement the school would probably increase the hours, but mostly the school would go for a contract. (And some schools make the contract to run term dates, so pay is below pro-rata annually). I have only been paid "day rate" in two schools in a "hourly rate" LEA. The schools were near the county boundary with "day rate" LEAs , and found local supply would work across the boarder so there was local competition driving up prices. However, when each of these heads moved on, the incoming heads dropped paying "day rate".
  14. "border"
  15. A search on the site brings up a thread on the subject of which authorities pay which way:

  16. hey all
    A very interesting discussion. I have found out lots so thanks.
    I am thinking about going to one of the schools that I work in a lot and who know me well and simply saying to the head that I need a CRB and would they be kind enough to put their name on the CRB to sponsor me so I get it and I will offer to pay for it. Then once this has been processed and I have my number from the LEA etc write to schools to ask if they would like a supply teacher. Will anyone go back to the school for a reference or anything or is it simply them putting their name on something?
    Do you think this will work?

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