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Anti-Semitism: The new witchcraft?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Vince_Ulam, Mar 30, 2018.

  1. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    I've been around Labour people all my life and these accusations of anti-Semitism currently being flung at the Labour Party are not borne out by experience. It seems to me that these false & instrumental accusations of anti-Semitism & racism cheapen the experiences of people who have actually suffered under anti-Semitism & racism.

  2. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    It's easy to conflate anti-semitism with criticism of Israel or anti-zionism.

    It's a useful political device to tar your opponent as a bigot of some breed... the same has been done to the Tories, to UKIP etc.

    Does the present hysteria mean I regret my Labour vote last election? No... does it mean I won't vote Labour again? No...

    BUT... if anti-semitism is found I want to vote for a party that roots it out...
    JL48 likes this.
  3. mothorchid

    mothorchid Star commenter

    I am not qualified to comment on the exact nature of what's been going on and how it is/is not anti-semitic. However, I do get a sense that Jeremy Corbyn may have failed to tackle things sufficiently quickly, or sufficently obviously, thus allowing a witch hunt to develop.
    border_walker, chrisoakey and nomad like this.
  4. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    This has always been the case and sadly I think it does a lot of damage to the anti-semitic cause.

    At the moment however I think it seems to be more of an excuse to go for Corbyn. In a way I find it heartening, it means they are genuinely worried that he could bring about change. And I'm not surprised to see Blair jumping on the bandwagon, seeing chance for a bit more self-publicity.
    TCSC47 likes this.
  5. Caoimhseach

    Caoimhseach Lead commenter

    Nous ne céderons rien aux messages de haine, à l'antisionisme, car il est la forme réinventée de l'antisémitisme" - Macron
  6. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Saw this on David Schneider's twitter feed.


    Sorry, bit big...
    xmal, JL48, cassandramark2 and 5 others like this.
  7. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Lead commenter

    I think there have been genuine instances of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party, probably in increased numbers in absolute terms due to the massive increase in membership over the last 2-3 years. What I'm far less sure about is the narrative that has been built that Corbyn is somehow encouraging or enabling anti-Semitism, and that Labour has a disproportionate problem and/or is particularly bad at dealing with it. Certainly there are vested interests on the Labour right, among the press and, yes, among tory-supporting Jews (who dominate the "establishment" Jewish organisations like the Board of Deputies) for whom highlighting actual cases of anti-Semitism and pinning them on Corbyn represents a win-win. There's no need for a conspiracy either, just a confluence of people acting in line for their political objectives.
  8. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    I have not seen any evidence which speaks to this.

    Yes, it's a fiction. Anti-Semitism is the more get-behindable "transphobia".
    monicabilongame likes this.
  9. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    Good to know you have such a comprehensive oversight of all the available evidence andcan make such a definitive judgement.
    woollani, Pomza and Brunel like this.
  10. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    If you have something to say then say it clearly.
    monicabilongame likes this.
  11. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    "false accusations"

    Your evidence for this? Or is it just a personal opinion.

    There is a difference.
    woollani likes this.
  12. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Opening line of opening post. Those who make an allegation bears the onus of evidence. I have yet to see evidence that the Labour Party is an anti-Semitic institution.

    Omniscience is unnecessary to a sensible opinion.
    Scintillant likes this.
  13. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    The establishment are sh!tt!ng themselves over Corbyn

    They'll do anything to keep him out.

    And plenty of people are daft enough to lap it up

    But Jezza just keeps keeping on
  14. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    I linked to many examples of anti-semitism in the Tory party on another thread

    Killed it dead, lol.

    Corbyn has campaigned against prejudice of all kinds, all his life. He's a decent person, of the like I never thought we'd see in any area of high office in the UK.

    He is engaging people who have been left out of society. He is changing the face of politics on the ground. He is a force for positive change.

    He's got my vote. And no-one's had that for a very long time.
  15. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    I'm going to fail on 3 and 4 of the above now.

    Horrible things are happening right now on the border. You can bet your bottom dollar than accusations of anti-semitism will be used against those who express concern, sadness, anger or disgust over it.

    Just as communist is used to discredit arguments against wealth gap and feminazi/manhater to discredit arguments in favour of women's rights.
    palmtree100 likes this.
  16. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Lead commenter

    I've not seen figures, though I'd like to. What I have heard are a number of people reporting incidents that have happened to them, like the CLP treasurer who was told by another activist that it was good that he was treasurer because "Jews are good with money", or the reported comments from a Labour member who complained that the Holocaust Memorial was "too Jewy". There seems to be strong evidence to support a council candidate sharing a Holocaust denial article and claiming the Holocaust was a hoax. I can also readily believe that among the torrents of abuse directed at people like Luciana Berger there is plenty from people who are Labour members, plenty that is anti-Semitic, and some that is in the overlap between the two. It seems extremely unlikely to me that a group of people would get together and systematically create anti-Semitic incidents out of whole cloth. It always seems unlikely to me that there are no anti-Semites among the half million Labour members. Anti-Semitic incidents will be happening, the only questions are the extent, whether it's changed and whether the party leadership can reasonably be held responsible.
  17. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Not forgetting "transphobe".
  18. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

  19. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Lead commenter

    In your case that's more like "if the [size 10; high heeled] shoe fits..."
  20. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    monicabilongame and Vince_Ulam like this.

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