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Andrew should voluntarily surrender the title of Duke

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Corvuscorax, Nov 20, 2019.

  1. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    I have thought about it again and decided that rather than having it taken away by someone else, Andrew should choose to give up the title voluntarily.

    He has the option of showing genuine contrition through this gesture, and will go a long way to helping him rebuild his public image

    He may not have done anything criminal, but he was associating with a man trafficking young girls for sex, and he has not shown the slightest concern or compassion for them, this could be a way to show he is genuinely sorry.
  2. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    He'd still be a Prince, so what difference would that make?
  3. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    Theres a big difference, Duke outranks prince, so he would be giving up a more senior title, for a start, and prince is just something he was born, of no real significance, but Duke is a title bestowed as an honour

    It won't make much difference to his actual life, he will just be referred to as "prince" instead, a lower title, but symbolically, it could be a meaningful gesture, if he is looking for a way to show genuine contrition that he was in any way associated with Epstein, and knowingly or unknowingly supporting him
  4. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    You seem mightily presumptuous in your judgement and sentencing. Very prompt at telling people what they *should* be doing. Can't sit well with all that voluntary work.
    Laphroig and FormosaRed like this.
  5. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    I'm just having a chat, and making a suggestion. I think it could work out for the best. quite possibly.
  6. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Nope, the aristocratic pecking order is ...
    • King, Queen.
    • Prince, Princess.
    • Duke, Duchess.
    • Marquess, Marchioness.
    • Earl, Countess.
    • Viscount, Viscountess.
    • Baron, Baroness.

    No, male heirs to the throne are automatically given titles as dukes, earls, etc when they reach their 20s - it's not an honour for anything they have done.
    Laphroig and nomad like this.
  7. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    It doesn't. Neither ranks above the other because they denote different things. Duke is one of the ranks of peerage - duke, marquess, earl, viscount and baron - but Prince isn't. Prince is something you are from birth if you are the son of the monarch. Princes are born, Dukes are made. Social snobbery might have Prince outrank Duke but that isn't part of any formal ranking system.

    Not that it matters much.

    That's two threads you've started about this bloke now. You do seem a bit obsessessed with something most people don't care tuppence about.
  8. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    The tabloids have seldom rererred to him as anything more prestigious than "The Playboy Prince", "Randy Andy" and "Air-Miles Andy".
    FormosaRed likes this.
  9. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    As someone who, at a royal banquet (were I ever invited to one), would be seated so far below the salt that it makes little difference to me.
  10. SparkMaths

    SparkMaths Occasional commenter

    There should be a full police investigation in both the UK and US. Doesn't he have a security team who I assume log his movements?

    The public evidence seems to lean towards him being guilty, I'm not sure how you can accidentally be friends with two sex traffickers, fly on a jet with their victims, be photographed with their victims and be oblivious to the whole thing.
    caress likes this.
  11. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    I am not talking about the criminal investigation at all.
  12. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    no, Duke outranks prince, that is why babies in the royal family are born "prince" then later promoted to "duke"
  13. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    There's no promotion. As Rott Weiler wrote above, Prince and Duke denote different things. Princes are simply given a selection of aristocratic titles because they are princes of the royal blood, not as any sort of honour. Thus Prince Andrew is Earl of Inverness and Baron Killyleagh, as well as being Duke of York.

    Dukes do NOT get to tell princes what to do! They are not senior.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
    Laphroig likes this.
  14. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    Prince Andrew himself, no, a bit contemptuous of him, a bit sorry for him, some concern for his wellbeing through all of this.( and for his mother's well being)

    What has really enraged me is the attitude of the interview, and the view he displayed about his own self importance and the total irrelevance of the young girls involved.

    His automatic unquestioning assumption that everybody else would see it from his point of view, that he was important, and the victims of trafficking just an irrelevance. This is learnt behaviour. He knew that in the circles he moves in, and beyond, his point of view would be echoed.

    We now have a situation in which the BBC has broadcast an interview confirming to wealthy privileged powerful men that their well being trumps other people's ,and confirming to young girls that they are irrelevant. No amount of ridicule of Andrew is going to erase that from the minds of many people.

    As someone who regular looks after trafficked youngsters, I am very aware of some of their states of minds, and the nasty, insidious affect this could have on them.

    These are the people I am thinking of, not Andrew.

    I want to see something done to show in public that this attitude is not acceptable, and there are consequences for it.

    That is why I want to see him lose the title of Duke. Ideally to surrender it himself. Not to "punish" him, because I think being royal is probably punishment enough in itself. His upbringing is not his fault, is it.

    But as a gesture of contrition that he cared so little of those girls, and as a sign to everyone else in society that those girls matter. Its obvious to us that they matter and other trafficked people like them matter, but there are people ( mostly wealthy priviledged men) who genuinely don't see it.

    And as for most people not caring tuppence about it - yes I know, and that in itself is further damaging
    sbkrobson and Jamvic like this.
  15. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    its a senior title, but nobody gets to tell anybody what to do these days anyway.

    Either, its irrelevant. He can't surrender the title of prince, he can surrender the title of duke, it might go some way to redeeming him in the eyes of the public, and in reversing the damage his interview did.
  16. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    It makes absolutely no difference to anyone what title he is known by. You might as well try to punish me before a charge has even been brought, much less tried, by making me change my middle name to Gladys.
  17. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    It would be symbolic gesture, and it would matter to trafficked youngsters
  18. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Andrew has announced he is stepping back from public duties.
    Jamvic and Corvuscorax like this.
  19. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    Jamvic and lanokia like this.
  20. Weald56

    Weald56 Established commenter

    Wonder whether Andrew's share of the Civil List will be cut back, now he's not actually doing anything for it?

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