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Andrew has no recollection of Virginia

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Corvuscorax, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    Wagner is known to be the inspiration between many of the adherents of ideology that lead to the holocaust, many of us know and love survivors of the holocaust, many millions pf people around the world boycott Wagner for this reason, and it is very very relevant.

    I don't "love" or even intend to watch this particular hollywood film ,but anyone who wishes to is free too, as is anyone who wishes to listen to Wagner.

    And Nomad is well ware of the holocaust link, as you can see from his post.
  2. Weald56

    Weald56 Established commenter

    If it turns out Andy is a great fan of the Joker, what will you say then?
  3. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    you have absolutly no idea whether he did, or he didn't. Nor have I

    He has not even denied that he was having sex with girls supplied by Epstein, just that he didn't have sex with that one, and he knows that becasue he thinks he was at pizza express at the time ( although this has been disputed in the papers today)

    An allegation has been made, there is photographic evidence that they were together, he had no HONOURABLE reason for being associated with this girl, the friend he was with was proved and convicted of trafficking young girls as sex slaves.

    There is a case to answer.

    he is refusing to answer it.

    Any other man would be being questioned by the police.

    He should agree to be questioned
    caress and Jamvic like this.
  4. Skeoch

    Skeoch Lead commenter

    Just as an aside. He was friends with Epstein long before the offences were charged. What do you do when a friend commits a crime, any crime? You hate the sin but love the sinner. You owe an obligation of friendship. You may have to demonstrate publicly that you hate the sin, but you rally round to help your friend put things right.
    John Ch 8
    Aquamarina1234 likes this.
  5. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Someone first has to make a complaint to the police. What's stopping you?

    Ah, you have no idea. That won't go down well with plod. :rolleyes:
    Kandahar and nomad like this.
  6. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    What, Shaky? You're Jiminy Cricket or his Guardian Angel?
    caress likes this.
  7. shakes16

    shakes16 New commenter

    @Corvuscorax Fair enough then. If he did that kind of stuff when he knows he is a prince, then he is stupid and should pay for what he has done. I am very aware of the holocaust as my father escaped the Russians during WW2 and safely got to the UK. He wasn't a Pole though or a Jew.
  8. shakes16

    shakes16 New commenter

    I just said fair enough then if that is what he has done or did. The only thing that concerns me though is that you can't coerce someone into doing you know what, unless she is in your home. She would have either gone willingly to his home or someone would have forcibly driven her to his home. So which is it then> If it is the former, then what does she want to go to a prince's home for? If it is the latter, then yes the prince should be interviewed by police and a decision taken on the facts uncovered,
  9. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    Oh for heavens sake. There'll be as many varieties of coercion as there are apples. They don't all involve beatings and death threats. That's how they get away with it.
    Andy Baby will have been accustomed as per norm to attractive young women hovering round looking friendly. If he never asked himself (even I'm excusing a direct question to host) are they prostitutes, are they forced into prostition? Or maybe I'm a babe magnet - yes that is absolutely what I'd expect from someone who gave up a whole lot of clues to his entitled (no pun intended) and ignorant self.
    But I'm still not getting direct culpability. Well not without actual proof
  10. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    The Holocaust - the World War II genocide of the European Jews, and others between 1941 and 1945 and which had its roots in Adolf Hitler's appointment as Chancellor on 30 January 1933.

    Richard Wagner died in February 1883.


    And you consider Wagner to be associated with the Nazi crimes.

    Are you mad?

    Benito Mussolini loved jazz music. Stalin liked Mozart and watching John Wayne films. Ban them?

    Maybe you should boycott Handel due to the scurrilous link between his Water Music and the flooding in Yorkshire.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  11. Corvuscorax

    Corvuscorax Star commenter

    yes, he was named by many Nazis as their inspiration, including staff at death camps, hence the number of people today who still refuse to listen to him

    no, I am not mad
  12. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    My son jogs round to watch the GP on our telly. It seems every week the German national anthem is played. The power of that anthem. By the time it's over I'm goose-stepping round the kitchen. Did Wagner have anything to do with that? Too lazy to look it up.
  13. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Ideology makes a mockery of a string quartet

    Great story: https://www.news24.com/xArchive/Archive/Row-as-Israeli-orchestra-plays-Wagner-20001030
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  14. fraisier

    fraisier Established commenter

    Macron and his now wife were very lucky that nobody pressed charges as she was clearly committing a crime (Macron's parents sent him to Paris - from Amiens, Picardy - for him to finish his high school education there as they disapproved of the relationship. Not sure why she didn't sue, possibly to avoid a scandal, they were part of the local bourgeoisie, both doctors/consultants and quite religious I think but I could be wrong on this one; Macron's wife's husband immediately filed for divorce).

    She was committing a crime not because the young Emmanuel was legally too young for consent (he was 15 ½ when they met and the age of consent has been 15 in France since 1980) but because in her professional capacity as a teacher, she was clearly in breach of the law. Article 227-27 of the Penal code states, in summary, that an adult in a position of authority who has a sexual relationship with a minor abuses her/his position of trust etc. and commits a crime carrying a potential sentence of 3 years in prison and a €45,000 fine.
    When I did my teacher training in France in the mid-1980s, our tutors insisted on that, it was an absolute no-no (no relationships with minors/U18s in our care).

    There’s a very famous case in France called the Affaire Gabrielle Russier (books written about the case, film made, Charles Aznavour wrote a song about it etc.). Russier was a 32-yr old female teacher who fell in love with a 16 ½ yr-old boy she was teaching in a Marseille lycée, this happened during the permissive times of the late 1960s (May 1968 and all that, they actually started their relationship during the students’ revolt).

    Well, not so permissive in fact as the boy’s parents, both university professors, sued her with particular doggedness. She was charged, even spent two months in prison while awaiting her trial (she wrote a book about her love while in jail; the boy ran away for weeks in Germany and Italy after his parents had him sectioned and sent to a psychiatric unit from which he escaped, the boy's parents sued Russier a second time at that point, for aiding and abetting a runaway child or something similar).

    In July 1969, Gabrielle Russier was given a 12-month suspended sentence and a Fr. 500 fine. There was an appeal from the public prosecutor who deemed the sentence too light but she killed herself in Sept. 1969 before the retrial could take place.

    A Truly French Tragicomedy
    Kandahar likes this.
  15. smoothnewt

    smoothnewt Star commenter

    I hadn’t realised until reading The Times earlier that not only did Andrew invite Epstein to Beatrice’s 18th birthday but that Harvey Weinstein was also in attendance. You couldn’t make it up. I wonder if Gary Glitter was the DJ?
    caress, Weald56, vannie and 2 others like this.
  16. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    When they met?
    So every childhood sweetheart who went on to marry is now suspect? The offence is at the age of sexual intercourse.

    Don't think GG was a DJ. But obvs if anyone played his music, they should be righteously hanged.
  17. Spiritwalkerness

    Spiritwalkerness Star commenter

    Oh gawd, you mentioned 'him' - shakes will be all over it like a bloody rash!
  18. Jamvic

    Jamvic Star commenter

    Apparently it’s Andrew’s secretary who is completely to blame for his appearance on Newsnight. Well according to Fergie’s ‘friends’ anyway.

    They said Amanda Thirsk, the Duke of York’s private secretary, should have steered the prince away from a 50-minute interview with Emily Maitlis - described as a ‘forensic interviewer’ - on the single subject of his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein and questions over whether he had sex with a teenager trafficked to Britain. One source claimed: “The Duchess had no involvement. This has Amanda Thirsk’s hands all over it.

    The Duke is not very quick on his feet so how could Amanda put him up to it. Amanda was the one who pushed for it. Fifty minutes with anybody on the one subject is going to be difficult.

    I wonder if there was also an underling in 2010 who frogmarched him to, convicted sex offender, Epstein’s house, forced him to stay there for four nights and to ask for money, from the convicted sex offender, to help out with his ex-wife debts.

    The now notorious four-day visit to New York in 2010 which the Duke insisted was made to say a final ‘farewell’ to Epstein coincided with Prince Andrew securing a loan from the billionaire to help pay off his ex-wife’s debts

    During the Duke’s stay at Epstein’s New York mansion, the convicted paedophile twice contacted Johnny O’Sullivan, the Duchess of York’s former personal assistant, urging him to accept an offer on the debt he was owed.

    Epstein went on to pay Mr O’Sullivan £15,000 to cover the cost of his unpaid wages and other bills. The Duke insisted during his Newsnight interview that the sole reason for his December 2010 visit, five months after Epstein was released from prison, was to cut off contact.

    I wonder if it’s now been decided (by a more effective PR team) that allegedly begging for money is a better excuse for the infamous ‘sleep over’, but Andy didn’t want to embarrass his ex-wife by saying so in the interview.....because he’s just so honourable you see. :rolleyes:

    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
    nomad likes this.
  19. Jamvic

    Jamvic Star commenter

    Mr O’Sullivan was owed £78,000 by the Duchess, but accepted £15,000 from Epstein which then allowed a wider restructuring of the Duchess’s £5 million debts to take place.

    The duchess, who shares two adult daughters - Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie - with ex-husband Prince Andrew, told the Evening Standard when the scandal broke: "I deeply regret Jeffrey Epstein became involved in any way with me.

    "I abhor paedophilia and any sexual abuse of children and know that this was a gigantic error of judgment on my behalf."

    She went on: "I am just so contrite I cannot say. Whenever I can I will repay the money and will have nothing ever to do with Jeffrey Epstein ever again.

  20. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    I'm sure rich people have various tentacles to their wealth that allow certain things to progress along one without that progress being visible to the other 7.
    I feel certain, though without any acshul, laws exist to make this completely possible.
    I and anyone can bang on here about how fair or unfair this is, but I bet my pension they've had it covered for years.
    Kandahar likes this.

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