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Discussion in 'Early Years' started by Msz, Jan 6, 2011.
I assume all staff are CRB checked and it isn't for long periods
Be careful posting on here if that's your real pic.
While you may not like it and it may not be best practice, it is not 'totally unprofessional' nor illegal and Ofsted probably wouldn't say much, if anything about it.
I never actually claimed it to be illegal, however I stand by my view as to the professionalism. If one of my children (heaven forbid) started being sick or slipped and hit their head, I would be left shouting out the door for help, trying to keep one eye on the hurt child, and another on all the rest of the children. I think Ofsted would have something to say about that, and so would any parent, surely?
I should point out that this isn't for ten minutes or so here and there, this is for an hour or two at a time...
The OP is working in a nursery and I am assuming this is pre-school provision. The ratios are basically the same in all registered provision including school nursery classes, until reception class is reached.
It makes my blood boil when teachers denigrate those working in private nursery provision. Many of these practitioners work long hours and difficult shifts for little pay, and basic holiday entitlement. They also frequently get messed around by mercenary managements in the process. They most certainly do not "have it easy".
I agree the safety issue applies to any teacher in any class. However, where the children are older class pupils can be sent to report the problem, or at the very least take a helping hand message card to the office. This is within the capability of most children reception class upwards. It doesn't cover all eventualities, obviously, but then nothing ever does. I have worked in schools where teachers (in all classes) have been issued with personal alarms.
Nobody is denigrating those working in private nursery settings it is merely a fact that the law states there is a ratio of 1-13 in a PVI reception class with a QTS yet the same QTS working in a maintained setting is expected to work with 1-30 ratio and offer exactly the same provision.
It has nothing to do with staff but it has a great deal to do with the stupidity of the EYFS ratios
and I would suggest there is very little difference between an almost 4 year old in nursery and a just four year old in reception
Well, this seems a bit denigratory to me. It is also inaccurate, as the private nursery is probably working with children up to school age, not with rising 5s. In addition several people posting on this thread have been dismissive of the OP's position and somewhat unsympathetic.
I agree with you that the ratios for reception aged children are pretty weird, but don't think that is particularly relevant in this case.
True (on average). But the line has to be drawn somewhere.
and once across the line you find yourself with an additional 17 classmates if you are in a maintained setting
well since the OP hasn't stated the age of the 8 children he/she was left in sole care of it is difficult to say whether it is relevant or not ...
Do you think the children were reception class age?
Ah well, maybe the OP will get back on and let us know.
coping with 13 pairs of wet pants as opposed to only 8 pairs
Oh, I do love this forum!
Seriously I've been in the position where i was alone with 27 children (under 5s) where 2 had soiled themselves and while I was trying to sort that out another had a nose bleed and and another had thrown up (with a handfull of others gleefully mark making with the result ) it isn't easy but we cope when the need arises.
The OP is probably correct the owners of the nursery are cutting costs (but within the law) for the sake of profit. However occasionally being left alone with up to 8 children isn't "that bad" in the grand scheme of things. Obviously the OP hasn't had any disasters and we could all cite "what if" Johnny chopped his fingers off and Charlene bumped her head and Leroy pooed his pants while I was alone ...
I had one throw up in the middle of tidy up time when an inspector was scheduled to observe the next lesson. She came in early, blanched and walked out again! By the time she reappeared child had Been whisked off to office (after me yelling in that general direction), room was tidy and 29 children sitting like lambs on the mat. Pool of vomit had been dealt with (unfortunately without requisite donning of gloves, apron and gas mask). Happy days!
Im not sure thatthe 'this situation is worse than that one' is really very helpful in answering the original question.
Some years agao I ws alone in a reception class with 30 children and one fell and split their head open. I managed, because I had to, I sent another child with a note to a nearby classroom. The children were used to running errands (like taking the register) so didnt worry them, and left me then just trying to manage the 29 children whilst at the same time stemming the bleeding. Such events are thankfully rare.
But going back to the original question which was about the profesionalism of being left alone, and what would OFTSED say, my answer would be dependent on the circumstances. Dependent on the location for example. I once worked in a nursery class which was across the playground and had no phone (and before mobile days). I would not want to be left alone regularly as a matter of course in that situation. On the other hand, in my last school, there was a class next door, not even aong a corridor, all I would need to do was open the door and say I needed help. I would find this more acceptable.
I would also consider the personal care needed by that group of children. In a group of 3-4 year olds, you may well have 3-4 nappies that need changing during a 2 hour session. Tricky if you are alone whether you have 8 or 28. In a reception class, you may have 1 or none or you may just need to change a child on 'occasions' rather than routinely.
It is financially difficult to employ 2 people for 8 children,and this is one reason why many day nurseries now opt togroup the 3-4s wit the 2-3s so that there are always more adults.
To the OP, I would also say, If OSTED commented on this arrangemenet, it would fall down to the manager and not you to explan. And at the end of the day if the working practices are ones you really arent comfortable with you sometimes have to make a decision that this isnt the right place for you.