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Am I just being thick here?

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by TheoGriff, Oct 23, 2011.

  1. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    Just read this on ATL website:
    <h3>Sickness pay</h3>
    The
    Burgundy Book sick
    pay scheme gives all teachers during their fourth or subsequent year of service
    100 working days on full pay, followed by 100 working days on half pay. This
    contractual entitlement also applies to part-time workers.


    A part-time employee on a 0.4 contract would therefore receive their normal
    0.4 salary for 40 working days, followed by half their salary for a further 40
    working days.

    Doesn't seem mathematically right to me. They are getting 0.4 salary, but for only 0.4 of the time - 40 days instead of 100.
    As a FT teacher gets all their salary for 100 days, surely a p/t teacher should also get all their salary (i.e. 0.4), but for the full 100 days?
    So how can ATL suggest that they get it for 40 days only?
    Am I just being thick here?
    _________________________________________________________
    TheoGriff. Member of the TES Careers Advice Service.
    I do Application and Interview one-to-ones, and also contribute to the Job Application Seminars. We look at application letters, executive summaries and interviews, with practical exercises that people really appreciate.
    www.tes.co.uk/careerseminars
     
  2. strawbs

    strawbs Established commenter

    doesn't seem right to me either - I would agree with you.
    Full pay for part timer would be the 0.4, but for 100 days as burgundy book states.
     
  3. 100 working days is around 6 months. So the FT teacher gets full pay for about 6 months. For the 0.4 teacher 40 working days is also around 6 months, so they get 0.4 salary for 6 months. So it works out fair for both.
    This all assumes their school does not find a way to get rid of them sooner!
     
  4. strawbs

    strawbs Established commenter

    Oh I suppose it is the <u>working days</u> bit that is confusing us maybe?
    I ignored that bit and was thinking 100 days.
    So a 0.4 salary spread over 6 months could be worded as 0.4 for 40 working days I guess.
     
  5. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    It's perfectly correct and equal treatment.
    It means the working days of each teacher, whether f/t or p/t and ensures a 6 months on full pay and 6 on half pay for everyone.
     
  6. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    Thanks for the clarification!
    (Yes, I was being a bit thick . . . )
    _________________________________________________________
    TheoGriff. Member of the TES Careers Advice Service.
    I do Application and Interview one-to-ones, and also contribute to the Job Application Seminars. We look at application letters, executive summaries and interviews, with practical exercises that people really appreciate.
    www.tes.co.uk/careerseminars
     
  7. Seems it has now been interpeted to counting 100 actual working days - as worked in that period - so if sick on the last day of school in July teacher may actually get approx. 8 months full pay.
     
  8. frustum

    frustum Star commenter

    I think I would read it as meaning that a part-timer who works 2 days a week would get their normal pay (ie 40%) until they had missed 40 of their teaching days. However that would only make sense for a part-timer who teaches in full days. Presumably, in the case of someone teaching 40% spread across four days, they should be looking either at 80 days missed, or the equivalent of 40 full days (eg days covering 200 lessons, with a 5-period day).
    I reckon it wants re-wording, anyway.
     
  9. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    It doesn't mean that 40 standard school days are ticked off and then full pay stops for a 0.4 teacher. It means that 40 of the teacher's usual work days are paid at full rate and those 40 days will fall in a period of 100 school days, so the teacher gets their usual pay for a six month period and half pay for a further 6 months, if required.
    One 5 day school week will account for two of the 0.4 teachers fully paid sick days. Holiday periods in between those work weeks will continue to be paid as normal too.
     
  10. Could a situation arise - full or part time - where a teacher can actually run out of sick pay during the course of the school year, or sick pay year?
     
  11. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    Yes.
    1. you don't have an entitlement to 6 months full pay and 6 months half pay until your aggregated service is, I think, 4 years or more.
    2. The sick pay year does not correlate to the school year so if you are still off sick on a particular date (31st March?) you carry on with whatever is left of your full pay or half pay entitlement from the previous sick pay year. That could mean using it up and not yet being fit for work. You need to be signed back as fit for work to then be entitled to the current sick year entitlement of X days full pay and X days half pay for your next sickness.
     
  12. I was told by union that because there are 195 working days in a school year once entitled to 100 full and 100 half you cannot run out of sick pay in a school year.
    That the April/March is simply counted for entitlement for the subsequent/following year.
    Therefore it works out 6months full and 6 months half. Specifically because the salary is paid by twelve equal monthly instalments see BB.

    However more recently certain LAs and unions appear to now be saying that the working days you miss are counted and when you reach day 100 you drop to half pay for 100days.

    This would mean that depending when you fall I'll you may be entitled to only 4/5 months full and 7/8 months half or 7/8 months full and 4/5 months half.

    Do you now if this is the case?
     
  13. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Good question. As you say BB says 100 fp + 100 hp <u>working days</u> and then says "For the purposes of this scheme, "working days" means teaching and non-teaching days within "directed time", as specified under [STPCD]".
    I wouldn't put it beyond LA HR lawyers to come up with a different interpretation though.
    Which just goes to reinforce the point made before that the BB is poorly drafted in parts and long overdue for revision - it's not been updated since 2000. In the currect education environment though I can't see revision of BB being high on anyone's list. I guess one concern might be that once that you open the lid on BB and start renegotiating it the whole thing would fall apart. BB isn't like STPCD, it's not statutory and even now no LA or governing body has to use BB conditions. Revise BB? Be careful what you wish for!
     
  14. But if it is in your contract that they are using BB that means if they fail to do so it is a breach - there are at least 3/4 CRT cases that could be seen as precedents where judges have used the quoted interpretation act 1978.

    Though looks like they want to scrap the whole thing and just use TAs anyway - means the big guys can trouser more of the education funds.
     

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