1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

alteration to part time teachers' pay and hours...

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by angelfish1, Sep 12, 2008.

  1. HAve any other part time teachers had a letter about their pay being altered by the pay review board?
    My letter gives the impression that my pay is now going to be calcualted simply on the hours they've decided I work - which will not include registration or play time, both of which I have to cover, obviously, or lunchtime, which surely must break some employment legislation?
    HAve I misuderstood something? Are full time teachers paid an annual salary which covers meetings, etc, but part timers are not now paid a proportion of this?
    I thought the unions were pressing for a review to end discriminatory conditions for part timers, not make them worse.

     
  2. HAve any other part time teachers had a letter about their pay being altered by the pay review board?
    My letter gives the impression that my pay is now going to be calcualted simply on the hours they've decided I work - which will not include registration or play time, both of which I have to cover, obviously, or lunchtime, which surely must break some employment legislation?
    HAve I misuderstood something? Are full time teachers paid an annual salary which covers meetings, etc, but part timers are not now paid a proportion of this?
    I thought the unions were pressing for a review to end discriminatory conditions for part timers, not make them worse.

     
  3. Haven't had a letter as such but head has told part-timers at my school that he is waiting for further information from the LEA on the implimentation of the changes. If you scroll down or do a search on this forum there have been some threads on this topic recently with useful links etc.
     
  4. Thanks - I had a look through but I must have missed them.
    I'm still really ,really angry, but I'm not sure whether I actually have anything to be angry about!

    I think it was Tafkam who said on another post that salary is based on a 35 hour week, in which case working one day means my pay should be based on 7 hours if I work one day, surely? ie 1/5 of a full timer's (which is waht it is at the moment).

    STRB's calculations make it 51/2. So I'm losing 6 hours' pay a month, despite doing exactly the same work as I was last year.

     
  5. tafkam

    tafkam Occasional commenter

    Definitely not me who referred to a 35-hour week in this context.
    Actually, I don't think you have anything to be really, really angry about. I think it's not as bad as you feared.
    Your pay will, indeed, be calculated on the hours you are actually timetabled to be in front of the class. It therefore doesn't include things like breaktime. However, it is then calculated as a fraction of a full-timer's timetable time, also excluding breaks, etc. This means you will probably find that it is calculated as a fraction of a maximum of about 25 hours, depending on the number of timetable hours at your school.
    It's much harder to explain than it really is.
    If you work whole days, then your pay calculation will be pretty much in chunks of 20% as you would expect.

     
  6. So I'm losing 6 hours' pay a month, despite doing exactly the same work as I was last year


    that statement makes no sense - you will not be paid by the number of hours but by a proportion of the teaching week
    and if that does mean you should get aid less this year, then it means that you were being (relatively) overpaid last year for the hours you worked - and even then your salary will be protected in the short term at last years level

     
  7. tafkam - I've checked back and no it wan't you - you were responding to someone else. Sorry - I think your name stuck because I recognised it.
    examinations - yes you're right too! Have sat and read letter through again. Hours are a proportion of full time teacher's week, so doesn't matter what hours are as long as proportion stays the same.
    Since I'm getting 1/5 of what I would get if I was full time, I don't think I'm being overpaid. And since I have to attend some meetings, training days and parents' evenings (all on days I don't work) , then I think they're getting a pretty good deal!
    Comes from reading letters quickly last thing on a Friday though. Now I can stop feeling cross.
    Still, not suprised that anyone can claim teachers don't work more tha 40 hours a week if they simply don't count anything outside lessons as work!
    Thanks for replies, everyone.
     
  8. tafkam

    tafkam Occasional commenter

    They're not claiming that teachers don't work more 40 hours a week. They're merely recognising that it is hard to measure the work done outside the classroom, and so the easiest and fairest way of paying staff is based on the hours of work within the timetable, and expecting that the extra commitments outside those hours be proportional.
    So, in your case, if you only work one day (hence the 1/5th pay), then you should also be limited to 1/5th of the directed hours - that is, your timetabled hours, plus meetings, plus parents' evenings should come to a total of no more than 253 hours per year.

     
  9. I would have used emoticons on that if I could get them to work. It was supposed to be tongue in cheek. I was commenting on the system, not complaining.
    I realise they are calculating pay proportionately, and that they're working on the 'timetabled time' deducted from 1265 hours etc, but the system stil doesn't seem suited to the way working patterns are changing.
    If you calculate (and give staff a written statement) of) hours worked as only the hours spent in the classroom, it means part timers who still need to attend meetings on days they don't work cannot count them as part of their job, or be paid, once thye're over their 'share ' of the 1265 hours. There doesn't seem to be any facility for counting them as employed for 0.55, rather than 0.5, for example, to cover the fact that the head wants them there at every meeting held on a day they don't work, even though that's how PPA is done.
    But it would be a nightmare to calculate, unless you allowed staff to claim for meetings as extra hours, in the same way they can if they come in and do supply, and that would get expensive!

    My contract states that I am employed for 5 hours something a week, which is rubbish - I have to be on duty from 8.20, and could only leave at 3.15 if I didn't tidy anything up, put away any resources, or collect anything for the next week, apart from the rest of the directed time! So what is the point of writing down hours that bear no relation to what teachers (full or part time) actually do? Why not write contracts that state what your directed hours are, and put in what part of that is timetabled time, if they really want to?

    It can make a big difference to part timers - a friend of mine is having real trouble claiming child tax credit or help with child care because although she works 3 days a week, which is obviously more than 16 hours, her contract only states just over 14 hours - because the hours she works are calculated only as lesson time.
    As I teach English and Maths it seems only sensible that I should be at parents' evenings, even if it's over the hours I'm paid for; and INSETs are often useful, (vital, if it's health and safety training) even if it means coming in (and paying childcare) for more hours than I'm paid for, so it would still make more sense if there was some system of recognising that part timers often have to work more hours than they spend in lessons.
    Part time staff cannot be asked to attend
    meetings on days they don't work - but if a school has lots of part
    timers on different days, how can you arrange meetings when they are
    all there? Even if you rotate them you're bound to have someone who
    can't attend.

    If my PM review reccommends extra training for a role I'm taking on, and that course is on a day I don't work, what choice do I have? Attend, and not be paid, or refuse, and lose the training. The system is not flexible enough yet, though I have no idea how they could make it so, short of keeping a record of hours worked , and allowing teachers to claim extra pay!



     
  10. tafkam

    tafkam Occasional commenter

    Angelfish, you are very confused about the system, and actually it is statements like yours which open up part-timers to abuse.
    The facts are simple. Part-timers hours are a proportion of full-timers. It has always been thus, but it has never been clear how this should be calculated, and the protection of directed hours has never applied to part-time staff.
    The new rules are quite clear. If you teach exactly half the lessons of a full-timer, then you should earn exactly half the pay, and also have exactly half the directed time. That seems eminently fair to me. All the issues you raise, no longer exist.
    No - it means that if they need to attend such meetings - or even if it is desirable for both parties - then they must be paid in addition to their regular pay. And there is no reason why it would be any more expensive than extending a 0.5 contract to 0.55
    It shouldn't do - it should state that you are employed on a 0.2 contract, or similar. If you only work 5 hours a week, then you'll only get paid for 5 hours, which is considerably less than 1/5th of the weekly salary. That's an issue with your school/LEA, not the system.
    The new system does that - by giving a fractional amount, e.g. 0.2, it clearly explains that your directed hours are 20% of a full-timers, i.e. 253 hours per year, and that you should be paid accordingly.

    Again this is an error. A teacher working 3 full days would ordinarily be on a 0.6 contract. Since full-timers contracts are based on 1265 hours over 195 days (or 6.49 hours a day, or 32.43 hours a week), then 0.6 contract would be 60% of the weekly amount, so 19.46 hours.
    There is such a system - it's called directed time. And for the first time, directed time limits do apply to part-timers, meaning that all those meetings need to fall within those limits. If they cannot be fitted within that time, then additional pay needs to be made.
    Neither of those - you would attend, and be paid a day's supply

    The system is remarkably clear now, in comparison to how it was in the past. Part-time teachers work part-time hours and get part-time pay. If they work more hours than contracted then they need extra pay. Simple as that.


     
  11. thanks tafkam, saved me having to say much the same thing - (especially the new clarity on not having to 'work' on days you are not normally paid for)

     
  12. ROSIEGIRL

    ROSIEGIRL Established commenter

    Is the head now legally obliged to pay for INSET days etc.? I know some always have, but my head has said it's my choice to work them for my own professional developement.
    <font face="Times New Roman"><font size="3"></font></font>
     
  13. tafkam

    tafkam Occasional commenter

    This is one of those issues where the impact of the legislation is clear to all except those who refuse to see.
    Existing regulations prevent the unfavourable treatment of part-time employees - i.e. by refusing to offer CPD, or by offering an unfair amount. It might possibly be argued that a teacher employed on a 0.5 contract is entitled to only half the training hours of a full-timer. That might be reasonable where some INSET days may not apply to part-timer, or they may not need to attend the full day.
    Unfortunately, what the new regulations don't do is iron out the issues of part-weeks which are so common in schools, and can cause such confusion for part-time staff.


     
  14. I work in a referral unit, where all of the teachers are part time, and the unit itself is part-time (ish), closing 1 hour early on a friday, to give us a STTW of 24 hours. We have received no information about how the new pay structure will be implemented, is anyone else out there in a similar position? We would be grateful for your thoughts....
     
  15. tafkam

    tafkam Occasional commenter

    Unless there is something significant about PRUs that I don't know, I'd presume that your salary would be calculated by dividing the number of hours you're due to be teaching or on PPA or similar by 24 to find your pay fraction.
     
  16. shell43

    shell43 New commenter

    I have started a new part time contract this year and was told that a 'normal' working week is 27 and a half hours, so my 3 days PPA works out at 16 and a half hours pay. I too am slightly worried as I used your spreadsheet to work out how much I'd be getting per month and have budgetted accordingly (taking on an extra job till I start getting supply days in). Will this mean I'll be taking home less that the £925 per month as states on the spreadsheet?



    On a brighter note was also told by the Head that I will be getting back pay for the summer holidays due to the length of time of my fixed term contract .Contract finished June, did supply in the same class till end of term and had no pay since then, apparently this is not allowed so I'm getting some pay. Hurray!!! Mind you with my LEA I could be waiting a while.


     
  17. Thanks Tafkam, we were thinking on those lines too, but it's nice to hear from outsiders who agree!
     
  18. tafkam

    tafkam Occasional commenter

    I don't know what scale you're on, so I can't comment on the exact amount, but 3 days would normally be 0.6, and similarly, 16.5 out of 27.5 hours equates to 0.6, so it should be as you expected.

     
  19. shell43

    shell43 New commenter

    Thanks Tafkam. Feeling better.
     
  20. I sorted out part time pay at my place when I took a grievance through the GB. Under the new rules assemblies and break duties don't count for the calculation, but I take worship 5 times a fortnight so this has to be planned for. Is this calculated as teaching time or not? My head made a statement at one time that he wanted us to take key stage assemblies to enhance the teaching of RE in the school.



    Where do we stand if assembly is cancelled for the day as well so that we are teaching longer? It is clearer but it is not the same as the original RIG proposal and is not as fair as the agreement that Iwas worked out 18 months ago. I calculate that I could lose 1% salary under this new system.
     

Share This Page