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All-women shortlists for parliamentary candidacy: Mayday4Women

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Vince_Ulam, May 2, 2018.

  1. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    The reasons why people put or don't put themselves forward need to be taken into account. The historical bias will take time to overcome but as women become more active at higher levels of institutions and organisations the numbers will slowly even out.
    lanokia and border_walker like this.
  2. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    The assumption there is that only the weather is holding them back rather than other things such as the route they took to get to the training ground.
  3. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

  4. kittylion

    kittylion Senior commenter

    I am sure they do their best as men do for their female consitituents, but surely you see the justice and merit of having a more equal balance of the sexes.

    (Edited to get rid of a weird smiley emoji - don't know how it got there)
  5. kittylion

    kittylion Senior commenter

    I suppose the AWS are seen as a way of speeding this process up.
  6. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Then it is wrong to suppose that MPs who are men do not do likewise for the women in their constituencies.

    Justice on what grounds? Merit is accorded to individuals not to groups.
  7. Ellakits

    Ellakits Senior commenter

    All women shortlists are discriminatory, they don't help the representation imbalance and they perpetuate the myth that women are unable to compete with men on an equal footing.

    The American system of positive discrimination has shown how self-destroying these ideas are. Consider a course for medicine: if the ethnic minority students need a lower grade to get on the course, and the Asian students need a higher grade than the white students, as a patient who do you wish to face in the consulting room? The person who attained the highest grades, or the person who just about scraped a pass and was really only there to fill an ethnic quota?

    If you don't know what grades an individual got, you make assumptions based on an institution's admission policies.

    It doesn't redress the ethnic power imbalance, it perpetuates the assumption that ethnic minorities are thick.

    Each individual should be judged on their own merit, not the colour of their skin. Isn't that the message Martin Luther King gave?
    border_walker likes this.
  8. kittylion

    kittylion Senior commenter

    Yes, I already knew this - but that isn't an issue of AWSs as such - just as to whether transwomen should be included on them.

    I do agree that positive discrimination causes a lot of problems - although I can also see why initially it might have been considered a good idea.
  9. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Thankfully nationally but regrettably locally, only for Rochester & Strood CLP.
    Laphroig likes this.
  10. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    It's discriminatory.
  11. kittylion

    kittylion Senior commenter

    As I said before Rac, I am not defending them - but I can understand the intentions behind them, even if they were flawed.
  12. koopatroopa

    koopatroopa Senior commenter

  13. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Star commenter

    No because that may change the number of that group in that role, but it doesn't change the causes that are stopping them getting into the role in the first place. They will still persist. So it's exploring the wider societal issues that will provide a longer term solution. Most inequalities start because not enough of a group apply for those roles.

    By changing the system. Society won't benefit if people incapable of doing their job are given roles and are protected because of discrimination. Why should a rubbish male reception teacher get a job over a more capable female teacher. How is that fair on the children in that class? If you were some underrepresented group and wanted to be an engineer, then why try so hard? You're going to find something because of discrimination and even if you are extremely capable everyone else is going to think they're only here because they're XYZ.
  14. koopatroopa

    koopatroopa Senior commenter

    Lots of things are discriminatory. I think there are many worthy of criticism before we get around to AWS.
  15. Caoimhseach

    Caoimhseach Lead commenter

    Stiltskin and lanokia like this.
  16. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Add further methods of discriminating against people so that we can concentrate on criticising other methods of discrimination?
  17. koopatroopa

    koopatroopa Senior commenter

    No. But we could look at recognising the reasons why people put themselves forward (or not) and spend time and effort ensuring that women as a group don't face a disproportionate barriers or a lack of opportunity. At that point there's no need for AWS.
    I'd also like to see the same objections to AMS as to AWS. We need to stop seeing the former as natural and the latter as PC engineering.
  18. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    What AMS?

    Which party is doing that?
    border_walker likes this.
  19. koopatroopa

    koopatroopa Senior commenter

    All of them for years and years until relatively recently.
  20. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    AWS is an official policy. Which party is doing AMS as policy?

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