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Agency finder's fees

Discussion in 'Supply teaching' started by sabreflyer, Jul 24, 2010.

  1. sabreflyer

    sabreflyer New commenter

    I have worked for Hays agency this last year and I have been in two long-tern posts. In both schools I have been offered a permanant contract with the school only to have it withdrawn when Hays wanted £8000 finder's fee. I have asked Hays about this but each agent I speak to has a different story to tell regarding the amount and conditions of these fees.
    I have worked really hard to ensure I do a good job to impress my employers but am unhappy that Agencies are able to shut the door on your future opportunities. I have been told that once I have worked in a school through Hays I can not go back to that school directly or with another agency for 18 months.
    Do all agencies have finder's fees? Are the fees less? Can you recommend an agency in the Midlands?
     
  2. Thats shocking! I suggest that you a) go with another agency! or b) do what i did and secure the post independently to the agency - i.e. work out with the school a way to apply so it is not secured through the agency. that is that i did. I was with Day2Day and they did not charge any fee.
     
  3. I understand exactly how angry and disappointed you must feel. This very nearly happened to me, but I was with a different agency. In their case they wanted 15% of my forthcoming salary or the school had to agree to 17 weeks extended hire (stated in their terms and conditions). The school could not pay this 15% upfront, and also I would have had to agree to have the amount taken from the salary! It depends upon how much the school want you - I was lucky - and they negotiated a reduced period of extended hire, after which I will automatically get contract with school direct.
    As for the period of time they can lay claim to, the agency I'm with it is 6 months. Also despite the fact I applied for the position indepedently of the agency, this is not enough to free you of their clutches because they have still introduced you. A school is unlikely to take a chance and employ you regardless because they fear legal action from the agency, who in this economic climate will not hesitate to recover their loss of income, and I was told this had happened to them in the past. And yes, with my agency it also applies if you take the job through yet another agency. They have it well and truly stitched up.
    My advice would be to read terms and conditions for supply and permanent staff very carefully, and this should be available online if you do not have paper copies already. Furthermore, if you are in this position again see if the school can do a deal: I understand my new school threatened to take their business elsewhere! I love them already!
     
  4. i applied indepentently just as i had with all other jobs that were available at the time. My agency were very happy - even sent me a congratulations cards.No finders fee or anything just alot of well dones as they know i was after a permanent position. May be you both just have awful agencies. there are some nice ones out there - just keep looking. I understand that they can be a pain. I was with another agency who actually sent me to the place i am working now for one day in september. When the long term supply became available they never offered me the work so i took it from the other agency. When they found out i was working there (thanks to a CS at the school getting it wrong and calling them) and they kicked up a fuss saying that because they had introduced me to the school in the first place that i should be working through them. When i said i was happy with the new agency they got very nasty to the point where i said to him to show me in the contract where it was stated. He couldnt so i told him where to stick it. Check your contract - if its not there its not there. If the application isnt internal - it should be advertised. Just apply independently then hand your notice in - they do not need to know what school you will be working with in september!
     
  5. You say the Midlands. If your school is in Birmingham I was under the impression that there was an agreement in place between the council and the agencies that the finder fee would be waived. I was told this by a HT last year, but maybe it only applies to some agencies. Has anyone else heard of this? It would be useful to know which agencies, if it is only some, have this arrangement!
     
  6. The ho hum issue yet again...here we go AGAIN!!!!
    Bloody exploitative of both agency and school...........................................[​IMG]

     
  7. Who actually concocted the nonsense of "finders' fees"?
    Answer: Greedy and profit minded agencies.
    Take the agency to court for restricting your human rights! I am sure that agencies are acting illegally by imposing a finder's fee. I would take them to an employment tribunal for restricting your right to employment i.e. your right to whichever EMPLOYER you would wish to be employed by!!!!
     
  8. QG, you are right!
    Who invented the silly idea of the "finder's" fee? One big malign myth!

    Really evil, self-serving and greedy agencies!
     
  9. This is an interesting post and it reminds me of when I asked at one of the schools I was frequently doing supply at if they would have any jobs coming up to be told even if they did I would not be hired because I had worked for them via supply. I even asked if I applied outside like other applicants and they still said no. Stupid really because I was only doing supply to enable me to get a job
     
  10. I am now questioning why I don't have a job for September but was given 100% positive feedback on interviews. A school contacted my agency regarding a job and that they were interested in me going for the job. My agency contacted me to see if I would be interested and told me that they were sending a costing sheet to the school. I haven't heard anything and I am gutted but I assuming that it's all down to the agency :O(
     
  11. The school are acting totally out of order here. I would threaten them with a lawsuit and cite the Employment Act (2002) which has a section on on discrimination of potential candidates which in your case would be easily PROVEN by taking down the details of the stupid utterance by the stupid and prejudiced person who made them!

     
  12. As unfair as this may seem, the teacher signed a contract giving away this right and the school enteredinto a contract knowing this... so no remote outside chance of even managing this... incidentally I know that many of those tht temp in other industries have same hurdles to cross...
    C'est la vie...
    The alternative try and find ALL of your own supply work independently of an agency....
     
  13. Read the small print before signing any dubious CONTRACT!
     
  14. Few things more murky than finders fees.
    My rule of thumb. Big agences charge big finders fees. As they are with many schools they can afford to lose the odd school. . . . and not negotiate.
    Small agencies will negotiate down.
    To be fair to agencies. If a school wants to employ a supply teacher after only a few days work then fair enough the school has skived out of a lot of money and time in the recruitment process.
    If the supply teacher has worked for a considerable amount of time in the school and the agency has made money and profit on top of the investment they have made in the recruitment process then surely the finders fee should go down. However the word 'fair' is not really in the vocab when it comes to schools and agencies.
    Very murky ground is when the school discriminates against the supply because they may have to pay a finders fee. However they have an open recruitment ad. which should really say (supply teachers who have worked for us will not be interviewed) This is very very murky. However presently it is done underhand and nobody has or can challenge it. Not much fun at all even for the best of lawyers (not that we can afford one)
    Schools and agencies should be a bit more fair, honest and equitable.
    Which is the most ridiculous statement I have ever made on here.


     
  15. Last word - Quality Mark for agencies s u c k s
    Big agencies s u c k
     
  16. I am sure the "finder's" fee is <u>unlawful</u> and cannot be actually imposed!
    Agencies and schools who know no better would love the myth to be believed. I am sure that any industrial tribunal would rule in favour of the supply teacher!
    Just take them or at least threaten them with court action! THen they will sit up and listen.
    Supply teachers have been BULLIED TOO MUCH!!!
     
  17. IF you and the school both sign a contract stating this then yes it is legal and lawful!
    Noone twists your arm to sign up do they?!
     
  18. If you are with an agency you have no contract with the school. You sign a contract with the agency.
    However the school signs a contract with the agency. Which as a supply you do not see.
    So if the school who puts out an open recruitment ad and bins your application because they know it will incur a contractual obligation they have entered into with the agency.
    Then it is not very fair and equal for all applicants particularly if you are a supply teacher, and particularly if you are an ex PGCE supply with a 16month clock ticking against you. And particulary if you have been told by the agency that working supply gives you a good chance of permanent work.
    No arms up back just take the work or leave it.
    Which is why I say Quality Mark s u c k s as I do not for one minute that the Quality Mark muppitts check this side of the service that the agencies provide.
    And of course show me a supply teacher who have been approached by Quality Mark to sound out the supply teachers view.


     
  19. On the supply teacher side, most of my contracts say I will inform the agency if I am offered some form of direct contract with a school I have worked in for them.
    On the contractual side The finders fee is nothing contractually to do with me. Agencies should be paid something for they have done the legwork for the recruitment.
    However excessive finders fees result in unfair recruitment practise, Because in some cases the contract between the school and the agency (not the supply teacher) is prejudicing the supply applicant.
    Noone twists your arm to sign up do they?
    No of course not, but in some cases it is more like being on a pirate ship and having to walk the plank. (the pirate ship being the schools and agencies and the plank being the murky contract they enter into) does not require much imagination to see where the supply fits in with my pirate model.
    I may add that my last perm job I was offered after agency work, however the school knew they had to pay, and it was not a public recruitment ad.
    I would also like to add that since the start of cover supervisors and senior cover supervisors (cover co-ordinators) doing the deals with the agencies you get the feeling you are not in very safe hands at all.
    IE they do a deal with an agency wanting knock down day rates, and do not worry their little heads about the other bits of the contract, such as finders fees.
    As for our unions well oh yeah


     
  20. As for Miss Pious howabout telling us which bit of the ed sector you are coming from.
    Are you an agency supply teacher in England/Wales?
    Are you supplying direct to schools in England/Wales?
    It is worth remembering that the primary game can be quite different than the secondary game when taking up direct to school stuff. Also area plays a big role. In my area the LEA tells the schools only to use designated 'Quality Mark', agencies normally VERY BIG agencies who are not very nice to deal with at all, and also charge the highest finders fees, and pay the supply teacher the lowest day rates.
    A lot of 'tainted love' in the supply game on the big pirate ship.
    I rather like the term they use around my area for the supply teacher 'The SUB', defines me the supply very well. SUB=SUBMISSIVE
    We have to be submissive it is as simple as that.



     

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