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Advent Day 2

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Erin_Rhys, Dec 2, 2015.

  1. Erin_Rhys

    Erin_Rhys Occasional commenter


    Matthew 1:18

    “This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.”

  2. magic surf bus

    magic surf bus Star commenter

    "I was born in the year 23. BC. Obviously. A time, it seems, that inspired generation after generation after generation of post-natal portrait painters… All those "artists" who produced all those paintings of the Boy and his mother and me — the Nativities — what's wrong with those people? I mean, there we all are. In a stable. Surrounded by straw and an ox and donkeys and Wise Men — his mother looking radiant in a blue and white robe. Me standing dutifully a few paces behind. Stern. Proud. Old. Aged about eighty.. Do these people call themselves artists? I was in my twenties then! His mother was nineteen! We were kids! I tell you — I may not know much about art but I know what I'm like. Why did they always show me as an old man? Because if I looked young and virile it wouldn't help with the idea that his mother was a virgin. But if I looked old and feeble it would help with the idea that we never had sex. Before the birth or afterwards. You know what offends me most about that? This belief that sex is somehow shameful. Or dirty. Or only for young people. These are not Jewish beliefs, by the way. They may be Christian beliefs, but they're certainly not Jewish. If the Jewish people only take one thing seriously, then it's The Torah – The Book of the Law. And one of the fundamental laws in the Torah is: "Be fruitful and multiply." The more children you have — the closer you are to God. Sex isn't shameful or dirty. Sex is something God wants you to do. And if it turns out to be a nice thing to do — well. Thank God. But look at all those paintings of the Boy and his mother and me — and what do those paintings say? "No Sex Please. We're Jewish." I wouldn't mind the Holy Virgin theory — but they left me out of it. You don't hear many people singing the praises of the Virgin Joseph, do you? Which is all right with me. Because all I've ever wanted was a quiet life. But in 1 BC a quiet life was hard to find."

    From Jesus - My Boy by John Dowie
  3. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    I am old enough to remember an allied joke that involved a certain brand of M&S underwear
  4. jacob

    jacob Lead commenter

    This is discriminatory against atheists.
    magic surf bus likes this.
  5. cuteinpuce

    cuteinpuce Star commenter

    The thing about St Joseph is that not a great deal is known about him. So people can use their imaginations to fill in the gaps, as John Dowie did.

    It's true that some painters have portrayed St Joseph as an older man. But plenty have portrayed him as of a similar age to Mary. This from Rafael...

  6. cally1980

    cally1980 Established commenter

    Advent Day 2: A rather nice creamy coconut Lindt chocolate.
  7. jacob

    jacob Lead commenter

    There isn't much known about any of them because what was written wasn't until ad 80-100 from the Chinese whispers of the sect. Whoever the author was could have done with a creative writing course to flesh out the characters. I mean what genre of fiction is it? Scifi/zombie?
  8. cuteinpuce

    cuteinpuce Star commenter

    The John Dowie piece is fictional drama.
  9. Erin_Rhys

    Erin_Rhys Occasional commenter

    Not very good fiction either:)
  10. magic surf bus

    magic surf bus Star commenter

    It's quoted verbatim from the script of a monologue stage play that's been performed in numerous countries and languages.


    Tom Conti might disagree with you, along with the very many who enjoyed his Shaftesbury Avenue performance as Joseph. They also liked it in Canada - if it ever makes it west of the Great Lakes maybe you could book some tickets to see what all the fuss is about?

    I personally think it beats the Bible version hands down.

  11. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    Joseph had to be an old man because the Church wouldn't have it that where Jesus' brothers are mentioned they were his full siblings - because Mary had to be a perpetual virgin, so that meant Joseph must have had a first wife and had children by her before he became betrothed to Mary.

    Nobody really knows what happened because accounts were not written until much later, and even then only the Passover events were written about initially. Mark, the earliest gospel written, says nothing about Jesus' birth. Retrospective reflection persuaded writers that if Jesus was so important, his birth must have been equally spectacular, and so they made up the story to fit their theories.
  12. felltogroundinberkeleysquare

    felltogroundinberkeleysquare Established commenter

    Christmas is a Pagan festival.
  13. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    Nobody knows when the birth took place and the Church didn't even bother celebrating it for hundreds of years. In effect it was plonked onto the winter festival to Christianise it.

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