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Addition sums

Discussion in 'Early Years' started by lizdot, Oct 6, 2018.

  1. skellig1182

    skellig1182 Senior commenter

    We have sent these in the last term (summer term) because it gets them ready for year one and we send home number lines and 100 squares. Definitely not now and not for a long time.
    install likes this.
  2. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter


    For example my class of 3 year olds are listening for initial sounds and so on. So we might have a game with apples, alligators and ants, but there is no representation of the letters. We also break up words to sound them out, so say things like 'who can find their c-oa-t?' or 'who would like to choose a b-oo-k?' We make different sounds by filling shakers with different objects and discussing loud/quiet, etc. This enables children to learn and understand sounds and changes in sound, etc before learning to read and write letters.

    Similarly we do things like 'Who can get me three conkers?' , 'Who can do two star jumps?' , 'Can you find the biggest conker?' or 'Who has the most conkers?' and so on. This enables children to learn and understand numbers, quantity, etc before learning to read and write numbers.
  3. digoryvenn

    digoryvenn Lead commenter

    In the concrete- pictorial-abstract model, the abstract representation of numbers is the final stage.

    Missing out the first two stages means storing up problems in later years. I have been appalled by the lack of understanding in year 6 because the first two stages have not been covered in sufficient depth.

    I totally agree with caterpillar.
  4. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Hence &or but soon enough you will show words.
    install likes this.
  5. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    To formalise this speculative model is to hobble children.
    install likes this.
  6. digoryvenn

    digoryvenn Lead commenter

  7. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Formalisation as an SOW.
    install likes this.
  8. grumbleweed

    grumbleweed Star commenter

    I'm sure the OP has probably drifted off by now .
    Vince , you make bold statements without any explanation , evidence or , unless I'm mistaken, experience in early years.
    So I don't think any of us are claiming that we wouldn't introduce numerical representation, just at when this is done. Your claims in an earlier post that children should be "trained" " the sooner.. the better" has no basis . What is sooner in your expertise?
    You claim the concrete pictorial abstract model "hobbles" children yet fail to explain why you think this and how it applies the the very youngest children .
    Digoryvenn is right to query this.

    I would draw attention to "street maths and school maths" by Terezhina Nunes. Something I observed when living in Africa . Children and adults alike who could handle mathematical ideas and had informal ways of calculating eg money required when selling, but formalize the same "sum" in school speak and they could not do the maths. Were they therefore less numerate than their counterparts because they didn't know the symbols ? Was their maths invalid? In my experience, these women were incredibly capable of working out the cost of 14 bananas by 10, 2 and another 2, something I'd bet some kids could not do in secondary classrooms and they did so with little understanding of symbols. They did not need to write down sums , nor to read sums .
    The maths understanding comes before the representing , informal before formal understanding before writing, otherwise you alienate huge numbers into believing they can't do maths, and that is the real tragedy. It isn't a secret club but by valuing the formal representation more , you make it so .
  9. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Most people working in Early Years do not know much about the development of mathematical ability in children.

    As soon as the training takes, not necessarily as soon as it can be timetabled. This is why the the formalisation of Bruner's model is problematic.

    I have not claimed that this model hobbles children. I have said that its formalisation into schooling hobbles children, as anyone who understands it must agree.
    install likes this.
  10. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    I agree with this in a way, I have certainly heard an awful lot of EYFS staff talking about how they can't do maths and don't understand it and try to avoid teaching it. (We only work with numbers below ten for goodness sake!!) But that doesn't necessarily mean I think that you (@Vince-Ulam ) do for the very young child, or at least I don't think you agree fully with me...which is more or less the same thing! :p

    I think the concrete, pictorial, abstract method is possibly sometimes misunderstood.
    No-one here (hopefully!) is suggesting that children in EYFS and KS1 only use concrete methods, that year 3/4 use pictorial methods and year 5 and 6 start on the abstract.

    My class are nursery age, but can talk about abstract maths.
    How many conkers?
    1,2,3, I can't count that high!
    1,2, a million!
    More than on all the trees at home!

    (I'm a mathematician...chances are my class will be able to write numbers to ten before then can write the alphabet, possibly even before they can write their name! However all is still a fair few months away yet and my class are working above ARE and have super competitive and pushy parents!)
  11. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    It is not a method, it is a model. The model is misunderstood by anyone who attempts to apply it in Early Years as a method.

    Whenever they formalise this method in their teaching, Early Years teachers are assuming hard stages and children are consequently hobbled.

    This model has become a cargo cult for Early Years teachers.
    install likes this.
  12. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    I don't think CPA is used much in early years at all.
  13. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Wherever this model is formalised, there it is abused.
    install likes this.
  14. digoryvenn

    digoryvenn Lead commenter

    C-P-A is a model and should not be translated into a method.
    It doesn't 'hobble' children but if I understand you correctly Vince, then in part, I agree with you.

    I think it should be used in early years:rolleyes:
  15. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    My class cannot yet do much more than scribble...pictorial methods of calculation and forming numbers are not going to happen any day soon!
    And although abstract maths is spoken about, they don't yet have anything like the fine motor skills to write numerals.

    I don't honestly think any model/method should be used to the exclusion of all others.
    Nor do I think every bandwagon is wrong.
    Nor do I think any model/method is a cure all for every pupil in every class in every school.
  16. digoryvenn

    digoryvenn Lead commenter

    Of course they can't do any of those things. Just because they can't do those things now doesn't mean they won't be able to in the future.

    Of course there is no cure all. Of course no one method/model should be used exclusively.

    Everything I say seems to be misunderstood at the moment, perhaps it is because we are communicating in writing.
    I think I will drop out of this discussion. Perhaps education is no longer for me after all.
  17. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    If you are using it in Early Years then you are attempting to make a method out of it.
    install likes this.
  18. digoryvenn

    digoryvenn Lead commenter

    No, I am not attempting to make a method out of it all as I am not working in a school at the moment.
    I am not using it at all.
  19. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Good thing too.
    install likes this.
  20. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    I said exactly that to someone today...and we weren't even writing!!! (Probably you wrote it in a slightly more mature and slightly less sulky tone than I said it. ;))

    I don't think you should disregard your place in the entire education system just because an exhausted and slightly wine sozzled idiot like me misunderstood one post. Though actually, on TES that is probably considered a very good reason to vilify the entire education system! Clearly all teachers are pen pushing spineless sheep and all SLT are bullying idiots and the entire system is off to hell in a handcart!

    I'm off to bed now...so you two can carry on all night if you like. Enjoy!

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