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Academy conversion...does it terminate your employment?

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by MarkS, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. MarkS

    MarkS New commenter

    Hi all,
    I thought I knew the answer to this questions (being 'no'), but I had a conversation with a colleague today, who has been told by a Union rep (Unison I think - representing support staff, not teachers) that Academy conversion will terminate our employment, leading to a P45 being issued and a new contract coming into effect.
    I've read the NASUWT (my union) guidance on TUPE etc., but nowhere does it specifically address this issue. I think my employment should just be transferred to the new employer, with no termination and recommencement...but I'm now unsure!
    There have been previous threads on this, but I son't think they came up with a definitive answer!
    Mark
     
  2. MarkS

    MarkS New commenter

    Hi all,
    I thought I knew the answer to this questions (being 'no'), but I had a conversation with a colleague today, who has been told by a Union rep (Unison I think - representing support staff, not teachers) that Academy conversion will terminate our employment, leading to a P45 being issued and a new contract coming into effect.
    I've read the NASUWT (my union) guidance on TUPE etc., but nowhere does it specifically address this issue. I think my employment should just be transferred to the new employer, with no termination and recommencement...but I'm now unsure!
    There have been previous threads on this, but I son't think they came up with a definitive answer!
    Mark
     
  3. Crowbob

    Crowbob Established commenter

    No it doesn't terminate your employment, even though you may receive a P45. The rep is misinformed (quelle surprise...)
     
  4. MarkS

    MarkS New commenter

    Thanks Crowbob,
    Can you explain why we might get a P45? Is there a difference between Academy conversions that mean some require a P45 and others don't? Or is it just a choice that the outgoing LA/incoming 'trust' can make?
    Mark
     
  5. MarkS

    MarkS New commenter

  6. mrkeys

    mrkeys Occasional commenter

    If you sign a new contract you accept the change in your terms and conditions. You also reject any safeguarding you may have benefited from under TUPE
    This should have been pointed out to you over the period of consultation.
    You should have been given a considerable amount of information that you should read and ask your professional association for any clarification.
    Please read all the information you are given, particularly about new terms and condisions. 1265 will not apply. Your previous service in terms of sick pay may not apply, women often do not have the same recognition in previous service when it comes to maternity leave.
    There are lots of questions for you to ask your professional association.
     
  7. I am no fan of academies but what mrkeys has written may not be correct in all cases.
    Changing to an academy will be a change in employer so I would assume a P45 from your previous employer, the LA, would be expected.
    Some academies operate STPCD so 1265 could apply.
    As a general point, Mr Gove keeps on telling us that T&C in academies are better than in the maintained sector - so we have nothing to worry about!
     
  8. mrkeys

    mrkeys Occasional commenter

    And you will also believe in Father Christmas!
    OK, so there may be an academy that does apply 1265. When mine changed to an academy it did not but we did not receive P45's.
    There was huge pressure put on staff to sign new contracts.
    Read all information and work with your professional associations
     
  9. Crowbob

    Crowbob Established commenter

    This is not true...
    If the main or principal reason for the change in T&C is the transfer or a non-ETO reason connected to the transfer, your signing a new contract will NOT change the T&C. Employees are not permitted to sign away their TUPE rights. You would still be protected and not be "rejecting" your TUPE safeguarding.

     
  10. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Lead commenter Forum guide

    Bear in mind that a P45 is only a HMRC tax administration form. In itself it says nothing one way or another about your employment t&c; it isn't part of your contract of employment. It just means that the employer who issues it has ceased to be your contractual employer and the P45 gives details of tax deducted this tax year to your new contractual employer so that they can get your tax correct right from the start. Issuing a P45 on academy conversion would be usual for that reason, but what matters to you is enuring that your new employer (ie at the academy) has obligations requiring your new contract with them not to have worse t&c than the previous one.
     

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