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A Woman's Place - the Gender Recognition Act

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Vince_Ulam, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act 2004 will inhibit the rights of women and girls to access spaces free from men. As things stands, people may apply to legally change sex on all governmental registers where they have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, have lived as the opposite gender for at least two years and intend to live as that gender for the rest of their lives. These requirements are to be removed. Consequently men who present as men will be able to access women's toilets and changing room with impunity. If challenged they may simply wave a piece of paper which threatens the challenger with prosecution for discrimination against them as women, this despite the fact that even now approximately 75% of "transwomen" retain a functioning penis.

    Many women, and some transsexual people who value their acquired sex as women, oppose these changes to which every major political party subscribes. It is argued, rightly, that an impact review should first be conducted into how these changes will affect the rights of women and girls. At present the government believes uncritically everything told to them by lobbyists for these changes.

    A Woman's Place UK is a movement which argues for an impact review. Its 23rd November panel on this issue included ex-Labour committee member Anne Ruzylo, half of the McLibel Two Helen Steel, and feminist & gay rights activist Linda Bellos OBE. You can watch this panel via these videos:

    If you oppose the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act - and if you care for your daughters, granddaughters, nieces and girl pupils then you should oppose them - then write to your local Member of Parliament, the leader of your preferred political party and to Women & Equalities Minister Justine Greening to make your views plain, You can find these via the MP directory. If you would like some guidance on points to include then you can find these at Fair Play For Women.

    Thanks for taking the time to read this.
  2. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    I'd support direct action by women to protect their safety in toilets & changing rooms.
  3. kittylion

    kittylion Senior commenter

    Would it apply to women's refuges too?
  4. MonMothma

    MonMothma Lead commenter

    Do they? How many people who go to a gender identity clinic and transition undergo surgery?

    I think the figure for that is more than 50%. Where did you get your figure of 75% from?
  5. MonMothma

    MonMothma Lead commenter

    Under the current Gender recognition act, it is still legal to prevent transwomen who have a GRC to access women's refuges as well. It's also legal for prisons to prevent transwomen with a GRC accessing a female prison.
  6. MonMothma

    MonMothma Lead commenter

    How would you differentiate between someone has a GRC and has transitioned and someone who has self identified?
  7. Moony

    Moony Lead commenter

    What.....are we going to aquire a US level of hysteria over who pee's in which toilets now?
  8. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    Interesting that you concentrate solely on "spaces free from men"
    And never, to date, on men having "spaces free from women"
    Surely this cuts both ways?
    And if not, then why not....?
    lexus300 and Moony like this.
  9. kittylion

    kittylion Senior commenter

    I'm not bothered about men's or women's toilets - would be happy to have unisex ones (without urinals).
    chelsea2, Moony and bombaysapphire like this.
  10. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    I took some sixth form students to a university open day recently, and some of them had a very bad experience in the "gender neutral" toilets, where a group of men had removed the sanitary bins from the cubicles and arranged them at the back of the sink area in such a way that anyone wanting to dispose of a sanitary product had to do so in front of them, where they were subject to close scrutiny, sneering and derision.

    I did complain to a member of the university staff, and asked for female only toilets, but the response was that acting on my complaint would be "transphobic".

    No one in my group will be applying there. I was upset by how upsetting this was for several of my girls, one in particular who has now indicated that she may reconsider the whole idea of leaving home to attend university, and only apply to to two or three she can reach from her parents home by public transport.

    I am assuming that such a law will never make it onto the books, as it is so obviously totally discriminatory and mysogynist and sets back woman's rights by so many decades...

    Incidently, there were four of these men, only one was obviously a transwoman, whether the others "identified" as female or not I can't say. I did go in to speak to them myself, but even I felt intimidated, and that does not happen easily. Ileft without saying anything to them.
  11. MonMothma

    MonMothma Lead commenter

    Do you think that having a female only toilet can prevent such people going to a female toilet and doing this?
    chelsea2 and bombaysapphire like this.
  12. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    yes, because security can legitimately remove them.

    It wasn't the bullying itself that was so devastating, but the fact that it was totally sanctioned by the authorities.
    Alice K and thatmaninthehat like this.
  13. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Thank you for asking this important question.

    At present admission is on a case-by-case basis although each refuge develops its own policy, which is problematic given that people in danger are in no position to shop around for their preferred refuge in the way that they might otherwise shop around for weekend break:

    "At present, the guidance issued to service providers - women's refuges, for example - by the Equality and Human Rights Commission states: "Where a transsexual person is visually and for all practical purposes indistinguishable from someone of their preferred gender, they should normally be treated according to their acquired gender unless there are strong reasons not to do so."

    Those with a
    [Gender Recognition Certificate] "should be treated in their acquired gender for all purposes"."

    BBC.co.uk, 31st July 2017.

    The dangers are obvious.
    thatmaninthehat likes this.
  14. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

  15. MonMothma

    MonMothma Lead commenter

    Security can legitimately remove anyone making others uncomfortable

    That's the fault of the authorities towards this behaviour
  16. MonMothma

    MonMothma Lead commenter

    So are you arguing that the CURRENT situation is wrong and that transwomen with GRCs should be prevented from going to a refuge?

    Or are you ok with the current situation of getting a GRC and the rights transwomen have?
  17. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    maybe, and also with the transwomen at the gym, but this new legislation does seem to be setting authorities up to be unsure and feel unable to act against such bullying.

    In particular, the all female gym was in a difficult situation, because the transwomen were all so much bigger and stronger than the female gym staff. Even if it shouldn't come down to force, obviously, security only works if that possibility is actually available.
    thatmaninthehat likes this.
  18. MonMothma

    MonMothma Lead commenter

    An invasion of transwomen.... really?

    It seems you have an issue with transwomen and are happily generalising about them.
    catbefriender and InkyP like this.
  19. Moony

    Moony Lead commenter

    This is the part that is the red flag about there being an over the top response.
  20. MonMothma

    MonMothma Lead commenter

    If people are intimidating others, that's an issue.

    You do seem to be unlucky with your encounters with transwomen.

    Bullying behaviour in the toilets
    An invasion in the gym and bullying behaviour.
    Moony likes this.

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