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"A Snotty Islington Weirdo..."

Discussion in 'Personal' started by artboyusa, Dec 14, 2019.

  1. artboyusa

    artboyusa Star commenter

    The science indicates that's unlikely.
  2. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    Where's the hatred in the opening post? There's mention of hate by others, but it seems a very fair commentary to me, rounded of by unequivocal decency.
    lexus300, Kandahar and alex_teccy like this.
  3. Skeoch

    Skeoch Star commenter

    I haven't looked at all the data, so expect to be corrected! From the constituencies I have looked at, the Conservative vote hasn't increased much. Instead the Labour vote has shrunk. From what I can read into the results, Labour lost the election rather than the Conservatives winning it. Many ex-MPs are saying this was because of Corbyn. Perhaps it wasn't because of the policies on offer.
    Certainly the party shot itself in the foot by sticking with him too long. A more credible leader might have led to less of a disaster.
    Sally006 likes this.
  4. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    It is none of those things. But as you obviously disagree with the comments within it and the conclusions it reaches, it is unsurprising that you attempt to virtue signal by lying about it. That's what the left always does, these days. Years ago, the left actually engaged with the argument by offering a counter-argument or a rebuttal.
    lexus300 and Kandahar like this.
  5. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    No he won't. However competent or incompetent a PM he may turn out to be, nothing any human can do will prevent the natural cycles of warming and cooling of the planet that have been going on for many millions of years.
    Of course, some may not wish to believe that these natural cycles have happened, but there are always those who bury their heads in the sand...
    lexus300 likes this.
  6. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Star commenter

    Economic growth does not equal wealth creation. GDP is a measure of economic activity, so if you spend money you create activity. Because nations were smashed up during the war, then reconstruction of course created growth. Does this mean we need wars and natural disasters when we want growth? We now have climate change stoked to hysterical alarm by the left who want big government and another financial splurge.

    We had a three day week under Ted Heath and power cuts. The 70s ended a decade of industrial decline and industrial unrest, power-cuts, uncleared rubbish and unburied dead. Subsidised and unsustainable nationalised industries like British Leyland churned out sub-standard products that could not compete in the open market and workers frequently held taxpayers to ransom with strikes.

    It was Jim Callaghan who said in 76

    "We used to think that you could spend your way out of a recession and increase employment by cutting taxes and boosting government spending. I tell you in all candour that that option no longer exists, and in so far as it ever did exist, it only worked on each occasion since the war by injecting a bigger dose of inflation into the economy, followed by a higher level of unemployment as the next step."​

    The 'property-owning, share-owning democracy' did get a boost from Mrs Thatcher, but she left our country with its lowest level of National Debt since the 19th Century. It was 150 BN, in total, in 1990, costing 5 BN in Interest per year. Govt Debt since she was forced to resign is now 2000 BN costing between 45-50 BN a year.

    The events that led to this explosion of Debt are both EU-related. John Major caused a recession in the 90s with his ERM fiasco, taking National Debt from 150 to 320 BN, and New Labour bubbled us to a Financial Crash because Blair wanted a feel-good boom to get the country to join the Euro. Gordon Brown locked us into the Deficit machinery of Brussels to save the City, which lends half of the capital to Euroland.
    Jonntyboy likes this.
  7. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    I said at the time we should have had Andy Burnham, the problem with that being that southerners don't like northerners, so might have dimmed the London vote.
  8. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    Thanks for the graph. Yes, it seems to make sense to me. When one is young, naive, idealistic, with little experience of the world, the lure of socialism and the myths of equality are strong. Yet, as one gets older, more experienced and less naive, one begins to see the world as it is, and the holes in such dogmas as Marxism.

    I think my epiphany came when I was in my mid twenties. I was discussing financial inequality with my parents. My wise Mum said that if she could wave a magic wand at that moment and make everybody in the country exactly equal with exactly the same amount in the bank and exactly the same needs and expenses, how long did I think it would be before the situation would more or less be back to what it was now...?

    Some would have gambled it away, some would have drunk it away, some would have saved and some would have worked to make more. Some would have given to others, some would have put money in a box in the loft. Some would have invested in shares or an enterprise, some would have died and left something or maybe nothing to their children. Some would have paid for private school lessons, or perhaps guitar or piano lessons, for their children. Some would have spent it on tat. Some would have begun to pay into a small pension scheme for the future, and some would be knocking on the State's door again, wanting more.

    I thought about this a lot. Equality is a myth. Marxism is a fraud. Thank heaven we are all different and that we get wiser and more sensible as we get older. (Well, most of us, anyway.)
    lexus300, artboyusa and Kandahar like this.
  9. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Star commenter

    I hate him. He hates Britain, contrary to what some users say about him being truthful he hates this nation and allies himself with our enemies.

    Here's a list of his Britain hating behaviour:

    1. Invited two IRA members to Parliament two weeks after the Brighton bombing

    2. Attended Bloody Sunday commemoration with bomber Brendan McKenna

    3. Attended meeting with Provisional IRA member Raymond McCartney

    4. Hosted IRA-linked Mitchell McLaughlin in Parliament

    5. Spoke alongside IRA terrorist Martina Anderson

    6. Attended Sinn Fein dinner with IRA bomber Gerry Kelly

    7. Chaired Irish republican event with IRA bomber Brendan MacFarlane

    8. Attended Bobby Sands commemoration honouring IRA terrorists

    9. Stood in minute's silence for IRA gunmen shot dead by the SAS

    10. Signed Early Day Motion after IRA massacre, blaming Britain for the deaths

    11. Arrested while protesting in support of Brighton bomber's co-defendants

    12. Lobbied Government to improve visiting conditions for IRA killers

    13. Attended Irish republican event where calls were made for armed conflict against Britain

    14. Put up £20,000 bail money for IRA terror suspect Roisin McAliskey

    15. Said banned terrorist groups Hamas and Hezbollah were his 'friends'

    16. Called for Hamas to be removed from terror banned list

    17. Attended wreath-laying at grave of 1976 Munich massacre terrorist (above)

    18. Attended conference where Hamas and Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine were present

    19. Photographed at rally in front of Hezbollah flag

    20. Attended rally with members of banned Al-Muhajiroun

    21. Repeatedly shared platforms with plane hijacker

    22. Accepted £20,000 for appearing on state TV channel of terror-sponsoring Iranian regime

    23. Opposed banning Britons from going to Syria to fight for ISIS

    24. Defended rights of fighters returning from Syria

    25. Voted to let ISIS fighters return from Syria

    26. Opposed police 'shoot to kill' policy

    27. Signed letter defending Lockerbie bombing suspects

    28. Accepted £5,000 donation from academic who said 'Palestinians have a moral right to their terrorism'

    29. Chaired Stop The War, which praised the 'internationalism and solidarity' of ISIS

    30. Shook hands with cleric Raed Salah after he had been found guilty of incitement to terrorism

    31. Shared platform with representative of extremist cleric Muqtada al-Sadr

    32. Compared ISIS to U.S. military in interview on Russia Today

    33. Opposed proscription of extreme Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir

    34. Backed Holocaust-denying anti-Zionist extremist Paul Eisen

    35. Criticised drone strike that killed Jihadi John

    36. Failed to unequivocally condemn the 9/11 attacks

    37. Called Colombian terror group M-19 'comrades'

    38. Gave speech in support of Gaddafi regime

    39. Voted against banning support for the IRA

    40. Voted against the Prevention of Terrorism Act three times during the Troubles

    41. Voted against emergency counter-terror laws after 9/11

    42. Voted against stricter punishments for being a member of a terror group

    43. Voted against criminalising the encouragement of terrorism

    44. Voted against banning al-Qaeda

    45. Voted against control orders for terror suspects

    46. Voted against increased funding for the security services to combat terrorism

    Meeting: Gerard McLaughlin (far left) and Jeremy Corbyn (far right) with bespectacled Gerry Adams and Tony Benn at the House of Commons in 1994

    47. Helped convicted IRA bombmaker Gerard McLaughlin (above left with Corbyn) get a job after he got a council flat

    48. Said ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi should have been arrested rather than killed

    49. Went to court to support an IRA fixer

    50. Co-sponsored Irish Republican event that called jailed bombers 'prisoners of war'
    lexus300 and Jonntyboy like this.
  10. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Star commenter

    The world of childhood is one of dependence, having everything provided for free by parents or elders who make all the decisions, sharing among family and face-to-face contacts, and solidarity.

    The world of adulthood where young people want their independence and making their own decisions relies on earning money from trading goods and services, and living with new friends and strangers, which requires rules about property, contracts and personal responsibility.

    It's easy to see why young people find socialist ideas appealing when they have been surrounded by socialist memes growing up, but they change when they become adults and want their own choices.

    Independence requires different customs than dependence.
    Kandahar likes this.
  11. Kandahar

    Kandahar Star commenter

    The epitome of New Labour and spin.
  12. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    Talking to yourself like that would once have got you sectioned!
  13. physicsfanboy

    physicsfanboy Occasional commenter

    It's been three days, and already the fascistic comments have started.
    I don't understand how right wing ideas can be so beguiling to the stupid. I suspect it is an evolutionary trait. We are hierarchical and designed to hate and fear the other. Overcoming that requires intelligence and education.
  14. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Either way what's done is done and the main lesson for Labour to learn is to cater for everyone not just the few who already follow.
    Jamvic, alex_teccy and Kandahar like this.
  15. Kandahar

    Kandahar Star commenter

    For a supposed scientist, you really do write some 'fantastic' nonsense.
  16. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Although the turnout this time was 1.5% lower than in 2017, the number of Conservative votes increased by 1.2%. The number of Labour votes decreased by 7.9%.

    So Labour did indeed lose the election, but the tories saw a small increase in the number of votes they received.
    needabreak and alex_teccy like this.
  17. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Star commenter

    I thought the left didn’t believe in evolutionary traits?
    needabreak and Kandahar like this.
  18. alex_teccy

    alex_teccy Star commenter

    needabreak and Kandahar like this.
  19. NoseyMatronType

    NoseyMatronType Star commenter

    Definitely, some interesting points there.

    But I'm not sure that it's me that you might need to convince. For example, I find Keynes and Adam Smith equally fascinating, and not just because of their economic theories. Hayek is interesting too.

    Staying with Smith for a moment, would he have endorsed off-the-leash neoliberalism?

    I know that a lot has been made of his view that people pursue exclusively selfish interests. But as an ethicist, Smith appears to stand more in the Aristotelian tradition of virtue ethics, which is all to do with the cultivation of character. He might therefore have been mortified by the shallowness and egocentricity of modern politicians, with their monstrous egos and very little actual ability. In Smith's less well-known Theory of Moral Sentiments he also highlights the necessity for each individual to attend to the well-being of others so that society can function harmoniously.

    For that to happen, something will need to be done about the increases in economic inequality that have taken place over the last 40 years, along with the social issues that have been generated as a result of that process.

    With Johnson, I don't expect this to happen.

    But anyway, I apologise for this post being somewhat tangential and rambling

    So as compensation, I offer you the Keynes Hayek rap.

    needabreak likes this.
  20. artboyusa

    artboyusa Star commenter

    That's quite a list. At least no one can say he hasn't kept busy.
    And I'm glad you included #22 - people seem to often forget his Iran TV gig.
    But I still don't hate him personally. I'm not very good at hating total strangers - which is part of why I was such a lousy liberal (back in the days when I was one).
    alex_teccy likes this.

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