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A couple of questions

Discussion in 'Supply teaching' started by wookster, Jan 23, 2019.

  1. wookster

    wookster New commenter

    Hi

    Yes where do we stand professionally so to speak if I take it and something better comes along does it look bad to do it for a few weeks if I had committed to longer term?
    Yes I am registered with another agency who do pay better but they don't have anything at the moment only day to day stuff
     
    pepper5 and agathamorse like this.
  2. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    Don’t mistakenly use words like ‘committed’ in the context of Supply. IF you’ve got a contract for the long-term gig then it will only mention a week’s notice.

    The only danger is burning bridges, the agent will sulk for a few hours or until the next chance to use you comes along, which ever is the sooner. Maybe harder to work at the school again but you are there and can present it as a career opportunity or whatever
     
    pepper5 and agathamorse like this.
  3. wookster

    wookster New commenter

    Ok thanks
     
    agathamorse and pepper5 like this.
  4. Deirds

    Deirds Senior commenter

    I think if you take it you probably only have to give a weeks notice, if that.

    I doubt the school would feel guilty giving you a day’s notice if it suited them...
     
    agathamorse and JohnJCazorla like this.
  5. greeneyes

    greeneyes Occasional commenter

    They wouldn’t! I’ve had it happen to me where I was booked in for a week, did a day and then was told at 4pm that the school had found someone with more experience.

    I try to remain professional but certainly the schools are out to keep themselves happy.
     
    agathamorse and JohnJCazorla like this.
  6. wookster

    wookster New commenter

    Is the AWR paid after 12 weeks continuous work? And would that be 12 weeks full time as in 5 days a week?
    I started work with both my agencies I work for back at the beginning of October some weeks have been full time but others only 2 or 3 days a week.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  7. agathamorse

    agathamorse Senior commenter

    12 weeks continuous work in one school and it doesn't have to be full time.
     
    install likes this.
  8. snowfairy

    snowfairy New commenter

    I'm on long term supply at a school. As soon as it was long term my agency said I would get M6 at worst as I am doing all the planning, marking, meetings, and parents evenings etc. I did ask to go up to UPS as I was UPS3 before going supply. This was refused. I am in the school until the end of the year and am currently applying for other positions. Although a position has come up in my current school I didn't apply. As far as I was concerned the fact that they refused to pay me UPS despite being in the school for the entire academic year says a lot about what theyd be prepared to pay me if I went permanent. They also didn't bother to inform that the position was coming up.

    I'm 4 days and from after christmas I received AWR which took my payment up to £175 a day from £170 which is equlivent to M6.

    I wouldn't take on a long term supply position for less that £175 day now!
     
  9. greeneyes

    greeneyes Occasional commenter

    Actually M6 is £179.50.

    I've been in a school since November and am likely to stay until April 2020. I still had to "pay my dues" and complete 12 weeks on £125 a day despite knowing I was going to be there until (initially) July 2019.

    I think the schools believe we are getting more than we actually are. And it's not the school's duty to pay us the AWR. I was once told by an agency that even at £125 a day the agency would be charging enough for them to be able to pay me UPS straight away. Problem is though, the agency wants a nice little profit margin so they have to barter with the school for what they can charge after 12 weeks so that they still make that profit. They claim its for payroll blah blah but I don't see how it costs them at least £50 a week to sort that out.
     
    JohnJCazorla and agathamorse like this.
  10. wookster

    wookster New commenter

    Yes I did look further into it thanks for your replies.
    I have requested more already but had no reply as yet! I'm already writing reports and staying after school for meetings. If they don't pay me more then I am looking elsewhere.
    I know the agencies cream off loads of profit and I do t think they truly understand the workload or requirements of being in the same school everyday.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  11. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    Who and how did you ask? I have a very low opinion of agencies and would not so much ask as say "I'm sorry but I can't keep continuing on this salary. I appreciate you will have already tried to improve this but can't see any improvement coming so I'll have to leave next Friday. How do I go about doing this via the arrangement made?"

    This puts the agent on the spot, you're currently laying the golden eggs and represent a low-maintenance, high income for the agency much to his credit and pay bonus. He will then have to hustle with the agency and the school to keep you there and suddenly you have the best negotiator in this transaction working for you.

    DISCLAIMER: I can do this (and am currently on £195 a day, £129 take home) because I'm in a shortage subject, don't mind bottom-end schools and can afford a few days/weeks of unemployment*. Can you take these liberties?

    * I hope Mrs Cazorla never reads this bit.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  12. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    I'm less generous than you here. I think they don't care. The only important thing is money and the amount of bonus they will receive this Easter. To do that they need to follow 2 major imperatives, charge the school as much as possible and pay the supply as little as possible.

    To give a slight bit of credit to the agencies they're only set up as money-making machines. Everything else such as working conditions are beyond their reach.
     
    agathamorse and FrauRussell like this.
  13. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    I get £120 for single day supply. Longer placements where I am expected to plan etc it goes up to £140 and sometimes £145. I can sometimes also squeeze and exta 5 or 10 if I have to travel for more than 45 mins to cover fuel costs. I have never done more than 10 weeks in any one place so AWR has never applied.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  14. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    And why should the agency care about these overheads? When the rate charged to the school was negotiated it certainly never included your fuel costs at any point.
    The point is that the agency always had that extra sum to throw your way if it had to. If a lesser-@blazer had been available at £120 then guess who'd have got the gig? Can you think of another magic form of words that will always apply to release that extra your way?
    My magic words are variations on my post #31, regretfully declining and as much ego-boosting as I can manage, which is a lot over the phone.
     
    agathamorse, blazer and pepper5 like this.
  15. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    I know I could get a better rate if I committed to some of the long term placements the agency keep asking me to consider. However these days I value my flexibility to go on holiday or do other stuff at short notice too much.
     
  16. wookster

    wookster New commenter

    I can't really take those liberties as have a mortgage to pay. However I am already thinking forward to the 6 weeks summer holidays and not receiving pay during that period . I'm figuring if I can negotiate a higher rate now I can squirrel some away each week for that time.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  17. wookster

    wookster New commenter

    Oh and also I guess on that note I'm a little worried about pushing too much for an increase as I need the work at the moment and them turning round and saying we are not going to pay you that and I end up with nothing ! However that said I still think being paid more than m2 equivalent is a must...before I was on ups3 witha tlr
     
    BetterNow and agathamorse like this.
  18. Teslasmate

    Teslasmate Occasional commenter

    No such thing as commitment. You can walk away at any time, as can the school. If you get a better offer, either take it or tell the agency the offer made (but not where it is) and see if they will match it.
    You owe no loyalty to either the school or agency. They have one to you.
     
  19. MissGeorgi

    MissGeorgi Occasional commenter

    I agree, its an annoying subject. And the agencies can really try to take advantage.

    They should be paying you, as a very experienced teacher, at least £140, if not £160. AWR after 12 weeks is £179.50 per day for MPS6. I’d personally say you can’t make ends meet, and i bet you they wll come back with a better offer.

    Or... Sign up with a different agency. Ask them what rates they could pay you, and then play the agencies off against each other. I use them as “leverage” against each other. If one pays more, i ask the others to match it. My agencies know i work very hard, and if i get good feedback, i ask for a pay raise. If a different person in the agency calls me about a day’s work, i ask them to give me a raise. I basically inch my way up, always with a smile on my face. Diplomatically check your pay rate against other supply teachers at a school. Never tell an agency you asked other people, say “they told you”.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  20. Teslasmate

    Teslasmate Occasional commenter

    No, no, no. AWR is irrelevant. There's no such thing as scale inside or outside schools. It's what you negotiate. Stuff 12 weeks before being paid to 'scale'. They can pay you the higher rate immediately. They don't because they are grasping weasels.
    We are a rare commodity. We are valuable. We are being ripped off.
    Negotiate. Refuse to negotiate downwards. If it's long term you are paid more for planning and marking. If it's short term you are paid more for inconvenience of a fluid work situation. Whatever the situation of the school, figure out why it means you need more money.
    Never, ever, believe anything an agency says. "The school won't pay it" means the agency wants a bigger cut. "We only offer umbrella" means the agency wants to rip you off for NI contributions and charge you for the privilege of paying you. "Free trial day" means they think you are stupid enough to work for free. "You have to build a reputation" means we think you will fall for anything.
    They are not laughing at us, it's just business. Only the ruthless survive. Supply teachers are on the free market and have to be more ruthless than the agencies. It's a jungle out there.
    Good luck.
     

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