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98% yes from Junior Doctors

Discussion in 'Personal' started by lanokia, Nov 19, 2015.

?

Do you support Junior Doctors striking?

  1. Yes I support their strike action

    80.5%
  2. Yes I support them but not to strike action

    14.6%
  3. No although I understand their concerns

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. No and they are well paid for their work

    4.9%
  5. No they are all communists

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Other [see Eureka I can learn!]

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    On a 76% turnout... so I think that fulfills the new industrial action rules from the government.

    I expect they'll now change those rules but still, so do the Junior Doctors have your support or do you think medical personnel should never strike? In which case, how should they express workplace grievances which have escalated to the first industrial action from them in 40 years?
     
  2. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    I support them, someone has to stand up for the continual erosion of workers rights over the last few decades and I think they have a good case. It might encourage others to do similar.
     
  3. Le_Grinder

    Le_Grinder Occasional commenter

    Not a hope with the teaching 'profession'.
     
    midnight_angel likes this.
  4. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    OK, so how do we as teachers change things?

    I know my old school drove one Union rep out and sidelined the other Union rep, refusing her access to basic Union guidance and training [as in they refused her days off]. But then the Unions don't do themselves many favours. Flicking through the latest copy of 'Teacher' from the NUT I saw little reference to the ongoing teaching crisis.

    Is Social Media the way forward maybe? Politicians seem to listen to people making noise online more than they do 'real' people.
     
    sabrinakat and midnight_angel like this.
  5. Le_Grinder

    Le_Grinder Occasional commenter

    In a nutshell. My copy had a front cover about sending AID to Africa or somewhere. The rest if full of pointless toying with very minor educational problems: funding, how to get excellent at your observation etc.

    The teaching unions are pointless.
     
  6. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    The teaching unions as they are presently structured are pointless certainly.

    They've either done too little or actively collaborated in the process.

    BUT... they can be restructured and changed.

    I don't know if it's practical but set up the Angry Teachers Union.

    1. No co-operation for any PRP processes
    2. No co-operation with Ofsted, Ofsted ring to say they are coming in, our members all fall mysteriously ill.
    3. SLT walk into the classroom without giving notice, our member walks out of the classroom.
    4. Your Union [the ATU] will fight your corner in Capability proceedings and keep a record on their website of how many staff from that school have been 'managed' out so people applying to work there can see how bad it is.
    5. No co-operation with data, a now discredited management tool.
    6. Scrap Ofsted [should have put that earlier]
    7. Pupils to be at the genuine heart of education for our members.
    8. Any member of SLT saying 'for the children' [or words to that effect] to be laughed at.
    9. Members to actively question SLT in school meetings, even if SLT don't like it.

    I can probably think of lots more...

    I should copyright ATU

    Edit: still can't get their/there right even after 30 years!
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2015
  7. Le_Grinder

    Le_Grinder Occasional commenter

    I am loving the sound of the ATU.
     
  8. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Well... I am angry :mad:
     
  9. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    Magically become mutually supportive.

    It surprised me how many teachers were reluctant to strike a few years back in the most recent teachers strikes. Not just that but the pathetic self-serving excuses:

    "I'm not going to lose a days pay"
    "I can't afford to lose a days pay"
    "I've got sooo much I can catch up with"
    "I'll strike next time, but I've a lot of marking to do"

    The short-termist nature of those excuses was what surprised me most along with what amounted to as "I can't strike because of the exact reasons the strike is about".

    Those same teachers were often the ones who would say to me after some meeting or other:

    "I'm glad you said that, it's what I was thinking too" - but they would never have mentioned it at all - ever.

    Then there's management who want to hang on to their position and are pressured to present a united front, one teacher I knew who was AST wanting to become SMT didn't strike so as not to spoil his record or damage his chances. He is now SMT.
     
  10. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    Magically become mutually supportive.

    It surprised me how many teachers were reluctant to strike a few years back in the most recent teachers strikes. Not just that but the pathetic self-serving excuses:

    "I'm not going to lose a days pay"
    "I can't afford to lose a days pay"
    "I've got sooo much I can catch up with"
    "I'll strike next time, but I've a lot of marking to do"


    The short-termist nature of those excuses was what surprised me most along with what amounted to as "I can't strike because of the exact reasons the strike is about".

    Those same teachers were often the ones who would say to me after some meeting or other:

    "I'm glad you said that, it's what I was thinking too" - but they would never have mentioned it at all - ever.

    Then there's management who want to hang on to their position and are pressured to present a united front, one teacher I knew who was AST wanting to become SMT didn't strike so as not to spoil his record or damage his chances. He is now SMT.


    Worth repeating @Mangleworzle

    About 20,000,000 times.
     
    RedQuilt likes this.
  11. RedQuilt

    RedQuilt Star commenter

    I really wish I could believe that teachers would band together like the junior doctors have but I can't. I hate being so negative about the job I loved so much but I sincerely believe that the rot has gone too far. Sorry:(
     
    midnight_angel and Mangleworzle like this.
  12. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Don't be sorry... be ANGRY!
     
    grumpydogwoman likes this.
  13. Le_Grinder

    Le_Grinder Occasional commenter

    Do you support strike action though RedQuilt?
     
  14. foxtail3

    foxtail3 Star commenter

    Doctors taking strike action is scary.

    Teachers doing so, is just an inconvenience.
     
  15. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    I agree, though I think the two are not that comparable. Doctors are far more committed in practical terms to their career path, training, ease of leaving, disparity in pay if they do, ease (lack of) of being replaced for instance.

    The cracks are beginning to appear in the system though with recruitment for overseas teachers because there aren't enough home grown recruits being tempted with the bribes on offer, increasing school rolls, teachers leaving etc.

    The message is getting out there to the public too to some degree, it could/should be a matter of spotting the moment and going for it, though from an ex colleague I spoke to recently, sobbing quietly in corners and mutual moaning seems to be the order of the day.
     
  16. Compassman

    Compassman Star commenter

    Where do i sign up?!
     
    lanokia likes this.
  17. RedQuilt

    RedQuilt Star commenter

    Most definitely and I supported it each time.

    @lanokia I really AM angry but feel like I haven't got a channel for it. Nobody's listening!
     
    midnight_angel and lanokia like this.
  18. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Aye I know what you mean @RedQuilt

    Very frustrating.
     
    RedQuilt likes this.
  19. foxtail3

    foxtail3 Star commenter

    I do think that there is a glimmer of the public beginning to understand how the job is currently. However, I think that glimmer would disappear pretty rapidly if teachers were to take sustained action. It won't be until there is a complete crisis (and it's heading that way) that there will be a realisation that it can't continue like this indefinitely and that we really will be in trouble when it collapses.
     
    midnight_angel likes this.
  20. felltogroundinberkeleysquare

    felltogroundinberkeleysquare Established commenter

    I am afraid of a credibility crisis here.Most young doctors are sons or daughters of previous doctors, or come from families who can pay private school rates. They become doctors because they can, and not due to any real passion. Hence, they should be treated like the rest of the workforce, and what the public can afford to pay them, if they really like it.
     

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