# 9, 672 pieces of evidence

Discussion in 'Early Years' started by louisea, Mar 13, 2012.

1. ### louisea

Yesterday our SIP/SEP - whatever they're now called came into school. She was looking at progress across school and my head asked me to provide 3 of our Learning Journeys for her to look at.
I have quite a bit of evidence in them, post its, photo's samples of writing, mark making etc. It's my first year in reception so it has been a big learning curve, but I do feel quite confident that I know how my kids have progressed.
Anyway, she says there is not enough evidence and that I should have 3 pieces of evidence for every point!!! I have 31 children in my class, so if all 31 reach point 8 (very, very unlikely I know but still) that would equal to a total of 312 pieces of evidence x 31 = 9672 pieces!!!
WHY do I need to write down THREE times that Billy leaves his carer, or that a child listens and responds?????
I know this is all soon to change but what is the point? Why can't THE POWERS THAT BE take my judgement (16 years of it) that I know what I'm talking about.
I have spent 2 hours tonight looking at where I have gaps and how I can change my planning around to get some evidence in.
I'm really fed up of jumping through hoops. I'm loving Reception and after many years in KS1 find I have really found my niche. But some of the expectations of staff is just plain silly!
Rant over!
Lou

2. ### louisea

Yesterday our SIP/SEP - whatever they're now called came into school. She was looking at progress across school and my head asked me to provide 3 of our Learning Journeys for her to look at.
I have quite a bit of evidence in them, post its, photo's samples of writing, mark making etc. It's my first year in reception so it has been a big learning curve, but I do feel quite confident that I know how my kids have progressed.
Anyway, she says there is not enough evidence and that I should have 3 pieces of evidence for every point!!! I have 31 children in my class, so if all 31 reach point 8 (very, very unlikely I know but still) that would equal to a total of 312 pieces of evidence x 31 = 9672 pieces!!!
WHY do I need to write down THREE times that Billy leaves his carer, or that a child listens and responds?????
I know this is all soon to change but what is the point? Why can't THE POWERS THAT BE take my judgement (16 years of it) that I know what I'm talking about.
I have spent 2 hours tonight looking at where I have gaps and how I can change my planning around to get some evidence in.
I'm really fed up of jumping through hoops. I'm loving Reception and after many years in KS1 find I have really found my niche. But some of the expectations of staff is just plain silly!
Rant over!
Lou

3. ### hayley24

I do wonder why we have to collect so much evidence in the first place. As the child's teacher, you know what they can and can't do. Who looks at the evidence? A moderator once every three years - at only 3 profiles. We're not allowed to send ours home (head's rules), so once the kids have been in year one for a term - the evidence get shredded. Year one don't want it - we try and pass it up, but they won't take it. They only take the profiles because we go on at them so much - but I know they don't look at them. Who are we recording all this information for?!

That's an urban myth and she should know better than to perpetuate it.
You don't!
If your line manager insists that you need to provide 3 pieces of written evidence for each point, then photocopy the first few sections or the EYFS Profile handbook, and highlight the relevant sections that will back you up.
Section 4 (Recording children's attainment) is particularly useful eg " the definition of evidence is any material, knowledge of the child, anecdotal incident, result of observation or information from additional sources that support the overall picture of the child's development. There is no requirement that it should always be formaly recorded or documented".
Maybe you should make 2 photocopies, so that you can argue your point with the SIP when she comes back.

5. ### debbiehep

I would go further than that and send the information to the SIP immediately for her information. Include a very polite note with it of course.

6. ### InkyPStar commenter

I have been to an LA moderation meeting today. One of the points emphasized was that we ARE allowed, even encouraged, to use our own knowledge of the children and not all evidence needs to be written down. We were asked to bring some of our evidence and assessment to the meeting and one or two had brought 'Learning Journeys' in beautifully created books but my motley collection of post-its and collection of the child's work plus my photos stored on the school server and online FSP were also acceptable.
I'm glad I work where I do.

I recently went to a LEA moderation meeting to look at evidence within our profiles.
The advisor running the course, who is undertaking the moderation visits this year, said that they did not expect to see evidence for every point (especially not 3 for each point!) and that your best resource was your knowledge of the children. If you could combine evidence in your profile with your discusssion about the children and their progress then they would be more than happy!

8. ### louisea

Thank you, thank. you....I shall photocopy that bit and show my head (who is normally level headed and grounded but seems to be panicking lately)
I felt like I was drowning last night but feel much better reading this.
Lou (phew!)

9. ### busnae

I was also reassured today by advisor that teacher knowledge is the first and most important - ability to talk about a child and this is backed up by appropriate supporting evidence

10. ### choralsongsterNew commenter

Our LA profile manager has said that they are happy to back us up, if we get unreasonable requests put on us. This includes having to demonstrate 'the made-up at least 3 pieces of physical evidence' per child.
Some evidence will naturally written down (observations, photos, work samples etc), but others will be natural progression.
What you are doing is right, and we should be trying to reduce paperwork, not increase it. Do speak to your Head and Co-ordinator (if you have one), and if necessary, seek advice from your LA support group (if they still exist).
Good luck xx

11. ### Aphrodite1952

I agree with all of the previous messages.
One of the problems is that every individual authority, SIP, moderator, Ofsted team all seem to want something different.
I'm involved in setting up a Free school and we have decided that Foundation stage teachers should be trusted in the same way as all other teachers are, when the offer teacher assessment or APP's for example. They will use the ongoing assessment process, but if a statement is highlighted and dated then that is evidence enough. After all...why would any professional want to lie about their children's attainment. We will be looking at individual progress and checking that planning serves all pupils equally.
Teachers will be expected to keep only 6 documents of evidence to support the scale points, 2 of each ability level. These will then form part of our internal moderation to ensure that all other judgements on the rest of the cohort are being accurately recorded. The portfolios will not be expected to be major works of art as we want our teachers to spend their time planning and making nice things for the children to do....there will be no need for neat typing, double mounting or fancy titles etc.
With respect to the new EYFS..and the emerging/achieved and exceeding assessment statements for the newly defined areas of study.....I wait with baited breath for advisors to spend hours making it more complicated and to justify their jobs!!

12. ### onthewayhome

Hey Aphrodite, sorry to have massacared your earlier post, but read through this thread, and weep that people think it's OK to fabricate children's attainment.
Grrrrrr

13. ### amjegNew commenter

I want to work in your new school sounds like heaven!

14. ### Aphrodite1952

Did you? I'm sure you didn't...but thanks anyway...I totally agree though, this relates to the lack of trust of professional judgement and anyone attempting to fabricate scores would soon be found out once the cohort enter year 1.
Also, shouldn't SMT be fully aware of the performance and practice of their teachers?

15. ### ClevercrocodilesNew commenter

This is an issue that seems to go around in circles and never gets answered or clarified by anyone especially the moderators or the inspectors who visit. We need to stand firm and if we know our children and where they are and the progress they have made and we have evidence of this, enough to show progression especially in literacy and numeracy then that is enough! I have fantastic LJs for each child which I use to show progression, not for any other reason. Ofsted will want to know that you know your children. They will ask about boys, summerborn, EAL, free school meals etc and you should be able to show progression. We have a 6 weekly(although it doesnt always work out at this, we do it each half term) to highlight where each child is. It takes only minutes and is fab for showing progress and where there are gaps etc. We dont fret if it is not filled in at exactly the day (I have been off with sciatica and no one has rung to ask - I will fill them in when I return) precisely because they are for us to use.
I also fully agree with comment about SMT being fully aware of the perfomance and practice of their teachers - if they do, they will not be worried about profiles so much. I think we, as Early Years Teachers need to stand together on this and not be bullied by those who dont do our job every day. I am told something different every time an inspector or advisor comes in - they do not know any better than us - believe me, they do not. Be prepared to answer their questions and stand up for yourself.

16. ### Aphrodite1952

I wholeheartedly agree. As a class teacher though, it is very difficult to know which hoops to jump through and how much paperwork you have to generate is determined by SMT in the school and how knowledgeable they are/fearful of SIP/Ofsted etc.
It would seem to be different in every school within an authority, as witnessed at a recent moderation course. One school brought photocopied worksheets as a record, ie all teacher directed, some brought nothing at all and the moderators were happy with all of this!
Let's hope that Claire Tickell's report and rcommendations are put into practice as she intended them!
(Oh...I forgot...we have to wait for LEA's to get their mitts on the new EYFS and once more complicate matters to the point of destruction of the morale of all dedicated and hard working teachers) (silly me)