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61% of students excluded from school end up in prison....

Discussion in 'Education news' started by lovejoy_antiques, May 24, 2018.

  1. abacus1982

    abacus1982 Occasional commenter

    Is it not slightly unsurprising that people who have broken rules, shown anti social behaviour and been excluded maybe continue to do so as an adult and are more likely to be in prison? I remember looking at the local newspaper over the years and seeing the "in the court this week" section. Whenever I saw a name of someone I was at school with it was never a name which shocked me or surprised me.
     
    Deirds likes this.
  2. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Established commenter

    "
    The majority of UK prisoners were excluded from school. A longitudinal study of prisoners found that 63 per cent of prisoners reported being temporarily excluded when at school (MoJ 2012). Forty-two per cent had been permanently excluded,
    and these excluded prisoners were more likely to be repeat offenders than other prisoners (ibid)
    " - IPPR report 2017

    I'm guessing the celebs got their figures mixed up and actually meant this rather than 60 odd percent of excluded pupils go to prison.
     
    Scintillant likes this.
  3. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Which is why we need to work harder to identify those people as early as possible and address their needs to help as many people as possible break that cycle. It can be done - I've seen it many times, but it requires a commitment to social inclusion from the start, and schools are rapidly heading in the other direction at present.
     
  4. JaquesJaquesLiverot

    JaquesJaquesLiverot Established commenter

    They investigated that statistic on Radio 4's More or Less last year and found that it wasn't true. It turns out that no-one keeps figures on who's leaving the profession, but some data came from the union membership rates - it was, however, skewed by the fact that the unions offer a free year, so lots of NQTs are in more than one.
     
    border_walker likes this.
  5. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Almost a third of teachers quit state sector within five years of qualifying
    Of 21,400 who began career in English state schools in 2010, 30% had left by 2015, government figures reveal

    This was from a five year ending three years ago. Up until a few years ago retention rates were largely unchanged over the last 20 years, but we all know what's happened in recent years so the quoted "third" above is now going to be a fair bit (or likely a lot) larger, by how much is difficult to say. Anecdotally, I'll be in school in about 40 mins and we're very short of staff, and my wife's MAT school is in a far, far worse position... at least we could pay for them if we could get them...lol.
     
  6. Oldfashioned

    Oldfashioned Occasional commenter

    Young toerags grow into adult toerags, well look at me all surprised.

    I see little we can do to stop this. In my experience i would say every opportunity they are afforded seems to be squandered.

    I have worked in prison education for young offenders and in a PRU; the attitudes in both are very similar. No amount of positive reinforcement changes behaviour or attitude. Rewards are expected, not earned. Nice resources and buildings are destroyed and vandalised, curriculum is ignored and respect for adults in and out of these settings is non-existent.

    All credit to colleagues who continue to work with these young people but I certainly won't anymore.
     
    NotAPowerRanger and Catgirl1964 like this.
  7. JaquesJaquesLiverot

    JaquesJaquesLiverot Established commenter

    Here's the episode (older than I remembered, but from about the same time as the newspaper article linked to above) - the bit about teachers starts at about 5.30:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05tpz78
     
  8. thyr

    thyr Occasional commenter

    As opposed to .... ?
     
  9. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Yes that's the 2012 MoJ report I cited - the original report is here if you are interested

    https://assets.publishing.service.g...37/prisoners-childhood-family-backgrounds.pdf
     
  10. Curae

    Curae Lead commenter

    And a very good one it was ...I enjoyed reading this ... for all the right reasons !

    Enjoy the half term
    Curae
     
  11. Shedman

    Shedman Star commenter

    The fresh start they want is to have a fresh school to drag down.
     
    Catgirl1964 likes this.
  12. turkith

    turkith New commenter

    Correlation does not equal causation. I just taught this concept to my year 7s last week and would hope they would be able to identify the confounding variable here. Is it not likely that students who have been permanently excluded for reasons such as aggression, vandalism or drug dealing (all examples of "the final straw" that have led to permanent exclusions at my school in the last few years) end up in jail for these same reasons, rather than an absence of education....
     
    strawbs likes this.
  13. garyconyers

    garyconyers New commenter

    I disagree.

    In my experience drug dealing, violent criminals tend to be this way in and out of school. They wouldn't be this way in school, but orally different people outside school.
     
  14. garyconyers

    garyconyers New commenter

    *totally different people. . .
     
  15. nemo.

    nemo. Occasional commenter

    I worked at a school that sent deputy and assistant heads to the USA to see how their Every Child Matters works (note consultants were paid millions to copy this from the USA).

    10% of students in USA schools are excluded and dont get school places. They mostly end up as drug dealers etc. Rascism means they are proportionally more black and hispanic. So inclusion in the USS isnfor the 90% only.

    If in the UK the 10% of students could be kicked out of schooling forever then schools would be great! 80% IMHO want to work, 10% will if everyone else is and 10% are too troubled dor mainstream education (not saying this cant be fixed over time).

    How many of the 10% are illterate due to learning needs and were not helped early enough or simply just have awful parent(s) eg crack ***** mums (I hqve had that in London).

    Say we can save half of these students by better primary educatiin intervention. Thats still a lot of kids. Borstals were where they went before. My home town had one. Brutal military discipline away from parents. Did it work? Who knows PC ness wins now. I am a practical person. Do what works. In the end a child who grows up as an adult who isnt a criminal is going to be happier than a criminal. Some parents are so bad they are best off without them.
     
  16. turkith

    turkith New commenter

    That was my point exactly. Maybe I was unclear?
     
  17. garyconyers

    garyconyers New commenter

    Apologies - I misread your post as, //it is not likely that students who have been permanently excluded for reasons such as aggression, vandalism or drug dealing (all examples of "the final straw" that have ledto permanent exclusions at my school in the last few years) end up in jail for these same reasons// - and responded as such.
     
  18. install

    install Star commenter

    The figures seem to show how dangerous it is for teachers now.

    The problem is when some hts interpret the data as meaning 'keep exclusions down then ' and exclude less . It becomes a tick box exercise rather than a safety one.

    Time for more police presence in schools perhaps?
     
    Catgirl1964 likes this.
  19. Incommunicado

    Incommunicado Occasional commenter

    The notion of "inclusion" was only ever a camouflage to not confronting the behaviour problems of some, not spending any money on potential solutions, and 'fiddling' while classroom teachers wrestled with the problems to their own mental and spiritual decline. Inclusion = doing nothing.
     
    install and Catgirl1964 like this.
  20. Catgirl1964

    Catgirl1964 Occasional commenter

    Incommunicado. Teaching assistants also have to deal with these difficult students and try to remain sane. Being a TA used to be about supporting students' learning and this has morphed into behaviour management 70% of the time.
     
    install likes this.

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