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3rd class degree but alot of experience

Discussion in 'Physical education' started by Grant_87, Nov 12, 2011.

  1. Hi Guys,
    Wondering if you could offer me any advice on my situation? I have been working within schools since the age of 19 part time while completing my education. I have now finished university with the dreaded THIRD class degree! At the moment I am teaching a course known as OCN where guys who are not quite achieving A-C grades come to us for alternative grades and I also teach a autism group. With just over 4 years worth of experience working within different schools what would my chances be of becoming a teacher with my degree class, obviously the PGCE route is out of the question but what about a GTP?
    Any feedback im sure would be pretty useful,
    Thanks
     
  2. Hi Guys,
    Wondering if you could offer me any advice on my situation? I have been working within schools since the age of 19 part time while completing my education. I have now finished university with the dreaded THIRD class degree! At the moment I am teaching a course known as OCN where guys who are not quite achieving A-C grades come to us for alternative grades and I also teach a autism group. With just over 4 years worth of experience working within different schools what would my chances be of becoming a teacher with my degree class, obviously the PGCE route is out of the question but what about a GTP?
    Any feedback im sure would be pretty useful,
    Thanks
     
  3. gogojonny

    gogojonny New commenter

    Work as an assistant in the independent sector then see if you cab get on a GTP.
    Competition in state sector is tough. You need to get somewhere first, show them what you can go and force them into offering you a GTP as they won't want to lose you.
    This could be possible in the state sector but very few state sector departments have assistants for PE. You could offer a state school a free club once or twice a week and get in that way, but would need an income. Your next step would maybe contacting one of the numerous sports coaching companies to go and work in primary schools.
     
  4. funkygirl

    funkygirl New commenter

    At this stage a GTP would be your best bet as you won't be eligible for a bursary with the coalition governments new policy on funding for PGCE where you would need a minimum of a 2:1 to qualify for a bursary now with proposed changes. But please be aware that even if schools are willing to take you on for a GTP, you will still have to apply to a university or consortium provider who validates this route/course and go through a similar application process to the PGCE. I remember at my last school where we had taken on a TA who we were willing to support him as a GTP. He failed to get onto the GTP course that year at the interview stage even though we were willing to support!! I would go with what was suggested in the above post as a starter though.
     
  5. ok thanks you two, you have helped a lot. Sounds like a GTP is the only option so guess i need to start applying at schools for interviews.

    Thanks again
     
  6. stopwatch

    stopwatch Lead commenter

    When I went to Teacher Training College, we were the first year group who all did THE PE Degree. The Teachers Certificate was done by the previous year group. It was the last year it was done.
    Everyone was lauding the dawn of a new era of higher standards.
    You came out with B.Ed and if you were really keen, spent a fourth year doing Honours - only for the very ambitious/keen
    Then all courses became 'Honours Degree' courses (didn't they?) with differentitaion between 1st, 2.1, 2.2 and 3.
    Now I believe some places are even differentiating 'higher' 2.2s and 'lower' 2.2s
    I am not sure that 'norming' higher grades, particularly ensures higher standards.
    I still 'only' have my B.Ed Degree (no Hons) and think I do a decent enough job.
     
  7. Me too, Stoppers.
    I (and you) have taught/teach with many colleagues who have Phds......
    Ho ho ho.

     
  8. gogojonny

    gogojonny New commenter

    I'm seeing now people get PGCE offers based on 1st or 2:1. But the problems that these people are attending numpty universities and doing a numpty degree. These are the universities keen to market themselves as getting good results so no surprise many get 2:1 in their 'PE and spors coaching' degrees. Those who attend the proper Unis, doing proper courses and being assessed properly stand to suffer if they get a 2:2 or a third.
     
  9. bigfatgit

    bigfatgit Occasional commenter

    Better be careful on this one GGJ!
    Some of the best PE teachers went to very well known 'colleges of education' (that eventually got amalgamated into Polys and then universities). Ever heard of Alsager, Chelsea, Dumf, Jordanhill etc?
    My dear old mum went to Dumf and left with a diploma of Physical Education (I don't think they ever used DoPE after their names) and her first year of anatomy and physiology was the equivalent to that of someone studying medicine at a top university. I dare say that 40 years ago, she was probably saying that "The standard of some students graduating is shocking" in much the same way as I said 15 years ago when interviewing some applicants.
    But it wasn't all graduates; it was some, and you get them from all types of university, same as you get some great ones from 'polys'. I know people who excelled at exams but I wouldn't trust them with a class
     
  10. funkygirl

    funkygirl New commenter

    You have made the assumption that the newer universities have this focus. Unless you work in a school environment who deals with CURRENT IAG issues at key stage 4 and 5 in terms of course choices, gone in and spoken to lecturers/looked at course content etc I don't see how anyone could comment on the quality of the universities. And funnily enough, within the top 15 universities for sport there is a representation of the old 'poly's' whi are higher than those in the russell group or former technical oclleges. You could probably class Loughborough at a push as one of the newer universities as it was formally a technical college before gaining university status.
     
  11. Hi (sorry if no paragraphs appear, I am typing in paragraphs).

    I was in the EXACT same situation as you when I left University - lots of experience, but a 3rd class degree in Sport & Exercise Science. Couldn't get on a PGCE course. Last year, Wolverhampton University were the only Uni accepting 3rd class degrees for PGCE and GTP.

    However, when I tried to re-apply this year, I was told that under new government regulations, 3rd class degrees are no longer accepted on GTP either.

    So at the moment, I'm doing Teaching Assistant work.

    In the future, I'm hoping to get HLTA status, and eventually do a CTLLS and DTLLS course, as you get the equivalent of QTS.

    Don't want to give you false hope, but just explaining what happened to me.

    Hope that helps
     
  12. gogojonny

    gogojonny New commenter

    You missed the point.
    How do we differentiate between polys and traditional unis when course vary so much in terms of coursework? Is it fair that someone taking more exams who gets a 3rd fails to get on a course, when someone taking all coursework gets a 2:1 and gets on the course?
    I scored 90 on my practical module at Uni - it was one module out of about 18, the rest had full on examinations at the end. Other Uno courses are nearly all practical.
     
  13. funkygirl

    funkygirl New commenter

    I think you have missed the point. Different courses cater for different needs and subject content and even traditional universities do not have the EXACT same content on degree courses or the same assessment methods. Potential teachers need to demonstrate their understanding of the national curriculum and current educational issues particularly with the focus on L & T and progress (particularly for SEN, FSM and LA children). If potential teachers are sound in their subject knowledge and understanding then does it really matter whether they sat an exam or completed written assignments/presentations to gain that understanding?? Alot of it is to do with how they can communicate with students! Just having coaching qualifications to teach/coach sport isn't enough in this current climate of education. If we had a one size fits all university education system then we would be failed in ensuring that everyone gains an opportunity to go to university.
     
  14. gogojonny

    gogojonny New commenter

    If someone is vocationally trained then a career as a sports coach is probably more suited to them. However as a teacher I think it does matter that they have been brought up on exams and assignments. PE teachers are now expected to cover other subjects and there are other expectations and requirements such as writing reports.
    I constantly see students from polys coming into school to 'help teach'. They come in groups of 5, one takes the lead and the others sit back. Most have a poor standard of English and minimal maths skills. Yes they work well with the children but they don't understand lesson structure, pupils sit out too often etc. I'm not saying students from trad unis would do better, but too many poly students are being trained as sports coaches but are being led to believe that they are also teachers.
     
  15. bigfatgit

    bigfatgit Occasional commenter

    I still maintain that a 'teacher' is born not trained; there is something inherent about the ability to pass on information to others. You either have it or you don't
    I have worked with staff who have degrees coming out of every orifice of their body but I wouldn't trust them in front of a class anymore than I would trust a paedophile in a clown suit!
    I'm afraid that that sums up a lot of student teachers no matter where they do their higher education.
    Maybe I'm just getting old but the standard of applications that cross my desk / applicants that I interview is quite disturbing.

     
  16. Carnegie...
     
  17. bigfatgit

    bigfatgit Occasional commenter

    Yes, very good call [​IMG]
     
  18. Well....i was due!!
     
  19. funkygirl

    funkygirl New commenter

    You've still missed the point. PE teachers or any other teachers are not expected to cover other subjects due to 'rarely cover'. If a a school is over staffed, then it would be a case of those staff being used in other means for school improvement. if they end up teaching another subject then this would more than likely be based on their skill set on their original CV/application. If they are covering other lessons then it would be a case of using the cover set. All teachers with QTS have an expectation in terms of report writing (which the skill set isn't examination based in terms of prior experience). The second issue you highlight is so called poly's again sending students to help teach on groups of five. If your school has allowed for this to happen it is because they are gaining a certain amount of money for each student that they are willing to take from a PGCE course (which can be worth £300 -£400 per student per term). In which case your school is making a fortune! This can often be a way of generating money for your PE departments. I guess what I'm trying to say to sum it up is if your not happy with the students you are receiving, then why would you continue to work with this particular university? You don't like the quality then don't have them or choose another provider! Apologies for the paragraph...typing from google chrome!
     
  20. gogojonny

    gogojonny New commenter

    Any teacher with QTS can teach any subject the head decides that they should.
    We're talking teachers not sports coaches.
    If you're arguing that vocational sports degrees are on the same par as other teachers who qualified with academic degrees then maybe we should sack all PE staff and replace them with sports coaches. Would be a lot cheaper.
    And no school does not get money for these students. Yes they could choose another provider, but a bit limited in terms of location (we're not surrounded by Universities / polys).
     

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