# 2016 Maths Expected Standard

Discussion in 'Primary' started by michael__foster, Feb 2, 2016.

1. ### michael__fosterNew commenter

Anyone got any ideas as to what the pass mark for KS2 tests will be. Obviously, it isn't going to be finalised until scores are all in but I would like some sort of ball park figure. I'm currently working on old money L4 with 46/100 being a pass so have basically calculated about 50% of the marks.

Is this way off the money or does anyone else have any thoughts?

It's getting to crunch time and I'm feeling it

2. ### nical73Occasional commenter

I'm a year 6 teacher feeling it too. I agree that old benchmark if 46/100 is a rough guideline. However, having looked at the sample papers on the DFE site have a feeling that thresholds will be higher. The reasoning papers, in particular, look tough. First few questions are much harder. 30 minute timed arithmetic test? I agree that children should be able to complete formal methods but I've always taught mine to take time and care, check calculations carefully. Why time them?
So many thoughts, so many questions
Pressure on after half term. Good luck to all year 6 children and staff

3. ### mystery10Occasional commenter

If you think the papers look tougher than the old tests, don't you mean the threshold could be lower?

mrsminniemouse likes this.
4. ### teacup71Occasional commenter

They originally said the pass mark would be equivalent to 4B. The pass mark on the old paper was only 4C.

5. ### mystery10Occasional commenter

Is the general feeling that the papers look tougher? If so, 46/100 could be like a 4b if it was 4c on an easier paper?

But they're only sample papers to give an idea of what the real thing could be like?

The recent exemplars in maths on another thread for the teacher assessment of "meets the national standard" were interesting - some dodgy maths seemed to meet some of the statements. So certainly one gets a feeling that it's unlikely that a very high score will be needed.

Also, my gut feeling is that the time to complete one of those sample reasoning papers possibly will make it a reasonable challenge lengthwise for a lot of children - so a child who gets half way through and is very accurate could perhaps be 4b as well as one who gets to the end but only gets about half right.

6. ### GuestGuest

I have taught for 20 years and most of those in Year 6 but I don't have a clue and I don't think they do either. Politically though I'm not sure they want a whole country of kids who feel like they've failed because it will make them look stupid. A few kids 'failing' is ok but a country? They will have a hard time convincing the public that every school and teacher is rubbish. I think the pass mark will be lowered after the test with the caveat that this is a new curriculum (which it is). I'm trying to cram 6 years of grammar teaching into three-quarters of a year. It just doesn't work.

7. ### Maths_ShedOccasional commenter

Good question. I'm happy at secondary for tests to be timed as it does help differentiate a little but even then the time period is normally long enough for everyone to finish, 30 mins for 36 questions is just stupid.

Hopefully Qn34 will not be replicated in the exam as it is just a ridiculous question that would have many Y11's looking at it not knowing where to start. Given the time constraint I would be looking to get them to go past questions that they can't immediately do, you don't want them getting hung up on a question like that for five or ten minutes before they realise they can't do it.

8. ### mystery10Occasional commenter

Which paper are you referring to when you say Q34 is a bad one?

I am not a primary maths teacher but I have at various points worked my way through many old KS2 maths papers including level 6 papers with various children and I've worked my way through the 3 sample new KS2 papers - arithmetic and the two reasoning papers.

I would say there is nothing conceptually as hard in any of the three sample papers as there was in some of the old KS2 papers up to and including the level 6 papers.

They are all fairly quick questions which if a child has been rigorously taught the national curriculum up to year 6, how to work efficiently, how to sit a test etc, the top 25% of the population (IQ wise) should get a pretty high score in that paper and a high score will depend on both speed and accuracy not " real maths ability".

I don't think it's the kind of paper that teachers are imagining when they go off down the (very valuable) route of improving depth and understanding with nrich-type problems, open-ended investigations etc etc. It's the kind of paper which responds well to the kind of work that a thorough tutor would do with a state primary school child who needed to pass an 11 plus selection test for a state selective - short word problems on a wide range of topics or that a prep school might have expected of children and provided regular practice in for many years before the test.

I am not sure how the remaining 75% of the cohort will fare with a paper of this type - but then I always felt that it must have been hard for a child of less than 4c/4b capability to do themselves justice in the old papers as they would have had to search for the questions they could do which is not an easy task. It's must easier to sit a test paper in which you know you can do all the questions. The higher ability children have always had an easier job in many ways in the KS2 tests.

It has to be timed as the scoring mechanism is similar to a standardised test score - and if different candidates have different amounts of time to finish the paper that's not standard conditions. Also, it presumably is designed so that only a small percentage of candidates will be able to get all the questions right in the time given ---- it will be designed so that results follow a bell curve and discrimination between the centiles is not a statistical nonsense surely.

So, I see it as a paper which will respond to teaching which aims at fluency and mastery - but a different kind of fluency and master from the one that some schools are aiming at. Schools whhich have done something as prosaic as dole out Schofield and Sims mental arithmetic series books for homework regularly for years and give children a varied diet of questions at speed regularly which keep all topics on the boil will be at an advantage on the day, IMHO.

9. ### Maths_ShedOccasional commenter

2331÷ 37 is on Paper 1 arithmetic. They've even chosen a prime number so you can't start off by cancelling down to a more reasonable sum.

10. ### OG19New commenter

I raised the question of division sums on the arithmetic test a while ago on here and thought it would be appropriate to make the point again; namely that none of the harder division questions, like that one, have remainders in the answer (like the old level 5 ones). I'm hoping that this is more than a coincidence as, under the time constraints, it's easier, in terms of checking, to know that the answer to such questions will be a whole number.

We're also assuming that fraction answers can be given as an improper fraction e.g. 1 1/2 x 19 = 57/2 and don't need converting to mixed fractions.

It would help if there was a definitive guide.

11. ### Maths_ShedOccasional commenter

I would imagine (hope) that if the question does not ask for the answer in its simplest terms then an uncancelled or improper fraction would be acceptable.

12. ### StudyzonetvOccasional commenter

We've queried this too and were told that equivalent fractions would be accepted.

13. ### reddevilOccasional commenter

Hi
I looked at the sample KS2 Maths for 2016 and there was a fraction question on the Arithmetic paper (Q35) which gave an improper fraction as the answer. The mark scheme appears to only give to give the mark when the answer is given as a mixed number. I think that this would be worth checking up on.