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2 sub-level progress

Discussion in 'Assessment' started by sulla, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. The government's expectation is Level 2 at end of Year 2 and Level 4 at end of Year 6. i.e. 2 levels progress each key stage. Silly heads will interpret this as meaning 1.5 sub-levels every year during Key Stage 2. Sensible heads will realise that children don't progress in a straight line. Ignorant heads will want to be "above average" and 'expect' 2 sub-levels a year. There are even a few moronic heads talking of 3 sub levels a year!
     
  2. YesMrBronson

    YesMrBronson New commenter

    I am interested in this. Please could you provide a link?
     
  3. I'd like a link. At the moment you can get L3 at KS1 and although I know it's not really a KS2 L3, does it mean they have to get L5? Our AGT SL says anyone getting 2b+ will be expected to get L5 according to the course she went on.
     
  4. markuss

    markuss Occasional commenter

  5. markuss

    markuss Occasional commenter

    E.g. national Curriculum Level 4 Reading goes:
    "In responding to a range of texts, pupils show understanding of significant ideas, themes, events and characters, beginning to use inference and deduction. They refer to the text when explaining their views. They locate and use ideas and information."
    That's it. Whatever age you are, when a child's shown they can do that (over a period of time, not just in a test or in one task, of course) then Teacher Assessment is level 4. There are three sentences in the description but it'd be nonsense to call them "a", "b" and "c" for children to be expected to achieve one sentence at a time!
    And you couldn't start with a "4c" for responding to a third of a range of books!
    Where's this sub-level nonsense come from?
     
  6. T34

    T34 Established commenter

    But surely you can still rank the chidren.
    If you have to ponder as to whether a child is a level 5 but decide against this, you might put them at 4(a).
    Another child you might decide is also a level 4 but you might have doubts, but you decide in the end to be optimistic. So he gets a 4(c).
     
  7. NQT1986

    NQT1986 Occasional commenter

    Why is this, then? Why is a Level 3 in Y2 different to a Level 3 in Y3?
     
  8. markuss

    markuss Occasional commenter

    It isn't.


     
  9. markuss

    markuss Occasional commenter

    Replying to:
    "There are three sentences in the description but it'd be nonsense to call them "a", "b" and "c" for children to be expected to achieve one sentence at a time!
    But surely you can still rank the chidren.
    If you have to ponder as to whether a child is a level 5 but decide against this, you might put them at 4(a).
    Another child you might decide is also a level 4 but you might have doubts, but you decide in the end to be optimistic. So he gets a 4(c)."

    The only ranking in National Curriculum assessment is by levels - whole numbers. Optimism and doubtfulness don't come into it.
    If you want to do finer ranking than by the very broad (meant to be used only once every two or three years) NC levels, then you use a different system, don't you?
     
  10. T34

    T34 Established commenter

    Only if you want to make life extremely difficult for yourself.
    If you want to survive you add to the existing system.
    If progress is a continuum and the NC levels are contiguous regions on that continuum then it must be possible to split these regions into smaller contiguous regions, and that is what schools (and some other agencies) have found to be appropriate.
    I agree that the NC gives no explicit guidance on how to decide on a child's position within these smaller regions. Perhaps practitioners who use "sublevels" should tell us how they decide between (say) 4c, 4b and 4a.
     
  11. We use sub levels. We use APP as a guide in Y7 and Y8.Basically if a child is close to achieving a few skills in L6 but not quite achieving then it's a 5a, and children who are just tipping into L5 get 5c. Students who come to us on a 3a or below get intervention (withdrawal from class, boosters, HLTA, SenCo or TA depending on their need) but those who are 4C don't get the intervention (but obviously are monitored in class). Experience has shown me that there is a big difference between a child at 4c and 4a (4c child barely over level 3 -whereas 4a is towards 5c). Having said that - a student achieveing L4 regardless of their sub level is supposed to achieve a C grade at GCSE. That's according to our school targets anyway. Personally I think it's a bit bonkers - although sub levels do give a rough guide to a student's ability. It's by no means perfect. At the end of the day students are not numbers and it's up to the teacher to be able to identify their individual strengths and weaknesses and intervene to ensure progress is made.

     
  12. A secondary school that refers to the NC levels and uses them, Oh how I wish the secondary schools round us did this, or at least their year 7 teachers could understand and discuss level 4's and 5's, let alone understand the plus points of sub levels...Thank youLisa5750 for shining a wee bit of light into my life tonight!
     
  13. T34

    T34 Established commenter

    I've looked through this thread and I can't find a mention of "AGT SL".
    I have no idea what it is either, though.
    Have you posted on the wrong thread?
     
  14. Crikey, 2b to L5. Good luck. I fully believe in aspirations but that could be stretching it!!
     
  15. Actually, it is. Point scores are different in KS1 and KS2, so what can achieve L3 in KS1 would not in KS2
     
  16. That's true, L3 in KS1 are different in KS2. 2 sub level progress per year puts the school on track for good to outstanding pupil progress, from Year 3 to achieve satisfactory progress (say L3 pupil) 1.5 sub levels on average per year is fine.
     
  17. Are there different APP statements available for KS1 and KS2 level 3?
    I think not. A child fulfilling the necessary criteria can be assessed as having achieved that level.
    I suspect you are confusing 'progress' with assessment: A child assessed at the end of KS1 as 2A needs only make 4 sublevels progress to achieve a level 4, which is 2 levels progress. 6 sublevels progress is 'expected' which would get to 4A (which is still level 4) so with only one extra sublevel progress the child could achieve a 5 - three full levels!!! A child assessed at the end of KS1 as a level 3 is probably a 3C / low level 3 and has much further to go to show the same progress.
     
  18. Hmmm...interesting. So if we report end of key stage 3 levels to the authority do we report 'level 5' or '5b'?
    If a pupil came in at 3a from KS2 and ended KS3 on 5c does that mean the local authority would deem them to have made 2 levels of progress? They've made 4 sub-levels of progress not 6 but do the local authority give a fig about our a,b,c judgements?
    I'm new to this KS3 leader stuff as you may be able to tell!
     
  19. A child who achieves Level 3 at the end of KS1 scores an APS of 21, which is a level 3B in KS2, not the level that they would actually achieve (more likely 3C = 19 points). There is no room for negotiation, despite on your tracker being able to put a 3c, it will always be really considered a 3B. Ths is the inequality.
     
  20. ramaduds

    ramaduds New commenter

    So...a Level 4 child should fulfil ALL expectations of a level 4. The 4b is that a bit beyond, and a 4a is almost achieving a level 5. The problem arises when we give them a 4c for achieving some of this description and a 4a for achieving all of it! This will then set unrealistic targets for that child in secondary school.
     

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